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Thread: My interest/thoughts on replica air pistols

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    My interest/thoughts on replica air pistols

    It always disappoints me when people dismiss the various replica air pistols as 'inaccurate'. It's not that surprising when you consider its a ball down a tube! However if shot at more realistic ranges there accurately is more than adequate for a little bit of training/fun.

    By realistic I mean no more than six meters. What's the point in that? Defensive shooting is close up and dirty. Not looking for pin point precision but getting hits on a man sized silhouette target.

    Use pellets, they are more accurate! I'm not convinced that, due to the low velocity and the short barrel any 'benefits' a pellet may have over a bb are minimal at best.

    If used hard, pellet blow-back replicas can jam due to the round moving forward under recoil. The obvious answer is to use a non blow-back replica then? Well yes but the loss of functionality, replicating the real firearm, plus the need for the shooter to manage that recoil, however small, adds to the discipline.

    The reason air pistols are inaccurate is that most 'learn' how to shoot from Hollywood or TV.

    Understand and implement the fundamentals. Stance, grip, sight picture and trigger control. More akin to real firearms but if your shooting a replica then that makes sense. The final, magic, word is consistency.
    Grab your gun and get your outside on!

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    I like riding my 500cc single-cylinder crappily restored 1955 AJS just for the feel of it. It's far from perfect and by modern standards slow. It still handles better than me.

    You make the point abt shooting a pistol for self defence. The accuracy necessary for that purpose is easily simulated by a BB gun. That's probably why reasonable quality BB guns exist on the world market. No point discussing pistol self defence here in the UK other than theoretically - but even then you can't simulate the noise and large recoil from a M1911 .45 auto and the resulting 'shock factor' of having fired it.

    A smooth-bore BB gun is fun but in my experience they do not shoot better than me. In a hobby you get a degree of satisfaction based on what effort you've put in. I believe smooth-bore BBs will deliver little satisfaction once some effort has been put in. Others will disagree.

    On the other hand, pure speed of shooting at suddenly appearing mechanically-presented large targets might even be fun with a repeating spudgun.

    From slow motion video on youtube it can be seen that a blowback CO2 pistol dips down in the hand after firing. A fire-arm pistol most definitely kicks up, with or without a ported barrel. How does that prepare the novice shooter for double-tap or fast firing?
    P1V1overT1=P2V2overT2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockhamster View Post
    However if shot at more realistic ranges there accurately is more than adequate for a little bit of training/fun.

    ......

    Understand and implement the fundamentals. Stance, grip, sight picture and trigger control. More akin to real firearms but if your shooting a replica then that makes sense. The final, magic, word is consistency.
    I shoot live firing service style pistols competitively, and have done so at a national level for some years. (Norway, still legal here) and have been looking for an indoor trainer for some time, but havent found any that have the required accuracy for what we do in competition.

    I would consider 1" groupings at 10 meters an absolute minimum requirement, and most BB firing replicas I have tried struggle to group below 3" at 10 meters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoni View Post
    I like riding my 500cc single-cylinder crappily restored 1955 AJS just for the feel of it. It's far from perfect and by modern standards slow. It still handles better than me.

    You make the point abt shooting a pistol for self defence. The accuracy necessary for that purpose is easily simulated by a BB gun. That's probably why reasonable quality BB guns exist on the world market. No point discussing pistol self defence here in the UK other than theoretically - but even then you can't simulate the noise and large recoil from a M1911 .45 auto and the resulting 'shock factor' of having fired it.

    A smooth-bore BB gun is fun but in my experience they do not shoot better than me. In a hobby you get a degree of satisfaction based on what effort you've put in. I believe smooth-bore BBs will deliver little satisfaction once some effort has been put in. Others will disagree.

    On the other hand, pure speed of shooting at suddenly appearing mechanically-presented large targets might even be fun with a repeating spudgun.

    From slow motion video on youtube it can be seen that a blowback CO2 pistol dips down in the hand after firing. A fire-arm pistol most definitely kicks up, with or without a ported barrel. How does that prepare the novice shooter for double-tap or fast firing?
    Not all dip down. My Sig Sauer P320 M17 Pellet has a slight kick up. It will also shoot sub 1” at 6 yards and 2” at 10 yards.
    Please ignore the poor grip as it was only for the video.

    https://youtu.be/vm8vHw0MhNw
    David.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAR View Post
    Not all dip down. My Sig Sauer P320 M17 Pellet has a slight kick up. It will also shoot sub 1” at 6 yards and 2” at 10 yards.
    Please ignore the poor grip as it was only for the video.
    Nice conservatory - or are they called orangearies now? Looks like the Sig-Sauer CO2 is a well balanced gun. The Gamo PT85 less so.

    Back to the plot, accuracy and relevance of BB repeaters?
    P1V1overT1=P2V2overT2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoni View Post
    Nice conservatory - or are they called orangearies now? Looks like the Sig-Sauer CO2 is a well balanced gun. The Gamo PT85 less so.

    Back to the plot, accuracy and relevance of BB repeaters?
    Uh, 'fun'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Uh, 'fun'?
    Fair point!
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    Interesting points, Rockhampster. I've got 3 CO2 replicas, 2 revolvers (pellet) & a PO8 BB firer. Love the feel of them, but the disappointing 'phut' when they're fired leaves me cold. The Dan Wesson 8" in particular sometimes can't get the pellets out of the barrel. My Crosman 3576 is more accurate & has never had a misfire. All were bought new.

    Some of my older airguns are 70 years old - & don't have issues. The replicas seem to be made of pot/monkey metal, even the junior rifles I own from the '50's are better made with decent metal.

    All the best

    Bru
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    Sounds like some of the BB gunfighter wannabes are trying to elevate their fun guns beyond the traditional product placement of adolescent playthings...

    Sure, some of controls on the replicas might aid gun handling or a particular model - but the actual shooting won't, particularly when the accuracy of them is too poor to highlight the shooters actual deficiencies and firing the real world centrefire equivalent of the BB replicas is such a far more violent event especially with the combat autoloaders.

    Years ago Crosman developed a training system using air pistols, but it was a situational tool, designed more to train LEO's when not to pull the trigger.

    I think they (or Daisy) also made some sightless rifles to teach 'instinctive' shooting which was quite successful.

    So they do have a place as training tools, but just not quite in the way some would like to see them maybe?

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    To the OP...

    Just looking at the website in your signature - very interesting, but just wondering where the figures come from that support this claim... "Rapid Airgun Training operates airgun experiences sessions for novice air pistol shooters contemplating taking up the fastest growing sport in the UK"
    It would be nice to believe if it's true - is it?

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    oh, really.....and you're not a troll either I suppose !!! FFS !

    Quote Originally Posted by harvey_s View Post
    To the OP...

    Just looking at the website in your signature - very interesting, but just wondering where the figures come from that support this claim... "Rapid Airgun Training operates airgun experiences sessions for novice air pistol shooters contemplating taking up the fastest growing sport in the UK"
    It would be nice to believe if it's true - is it?
    Maybe when somebody substantiates that claim you'll then substantiate your claim....

    Sounds like some of the BB gunfighter wannabes are trying to elevate their fun guns beyond the traditional product placement of adolescent playthings...

    You can prove that can you ? Or is that just your 'off the cuff' opinion of all CO2 handgun collectors ?

    Most of the people I know that shoot and collect CO2 replica handguns are well over 40, most are into their 50's ! As a lot of us were full bore pistol shooters before the Govt. executed operation 'Snatch Back' and since then we have been left with a yearning for any sort of realistic handgun shooting here in the UK. CO2 handguns may well be just plinkers but they are capable of good accuracy right out to 60ft (and before you even question that, yes that can be proved). But that's more down to the shooter than the gun and that maybe where your out dated opinion comes from......you're just a bad shot with a handgun and one of the many people who blamed the gun rather than facing up to the fact that your just rubbish at it.

    As for your derogatory remarks towards other members of the air gun fraternity (bb gunfighter wannabes), this only goes to show the narrow minded opinion that you have towards anybody outside of your own very narrow interests. Unfortunately this reflects badly on the hobby/sport in general and certainly does not endear you to new comers seeking sage advice in our wonderful hobby.

    Well done for being such a complete arse hat and doing so very little to encourage people to have fun doing whatever they want with whatever they want. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even like airsofters or paintballers either, gosh people having fun with air powered weaponry, dressed in camouflage, what ever next ?

    And finally, what pistol training do people in the UK need ? So your explanation of the possible use of CO2 handguns for pistol training is totally redundant seeing as how they are illegal to own here anyhow so no training is ever going to be needed, they're just for fun and should be treated as such. But just because they're fun doesn't make them a toy for adolescent youths, they're fun for anyone who's interested and you should just leave it at that.

    Right, I'm glad I got that off my chest, that was very cathartic......
    If you ever need replacement Dan Wesson 715 & Colt SAA hammer springs feel free to PM me

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullSeeker View Post
    Maybe when somebody substantiates that claim you'll then substantiate your claim....

    Sounds like some of the BB gunfighter wannabes are trying to elevate their fun guns beyond the traditional product placement of adolescent playthings...

    You can prove that can you ? Or is that just your 'off the cuff' opinion of all CO2 handgun collectors ?

    Most of the people I know that shoot and collect CO2 replica handguns are well over 40, most are into their 50's ! As a lot of us were full bore pistol shooters before the Govt. executed operation 'Snatch Back' and since then we have been left with a yearning for any sort of realistic handgun shooting here in the UK. CO2 handguns may well be just plinkers but they are capable of good accuracy right out to 60ft (and before you even question that, yes that can be proved). But that's more down to the shooter than the gun and that maybe where your out dated opinion comes from......you're just a bad shot with a handgun and one of the many people who blamed the gun rather than facing up to the fact that your just rubbish at it.

    As for your derogatory remarks towards other members of the air gun fraternity (bb gunfighter wannabes), this only goes to show the narrow minded opinion that you have towards anybody outside of your own very narrow interests. Unfortunately this reflects badly on the hobby/sport in general and certainly does not endear you to new comers seeking sage advice in our wonderful hobby.

    Well done for being such a complete arse hat and doing so very little to encourage people to have fun doing whatever they want with whatever they want. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even like airsofters or paintballers either, gosh people having fun with air powered weaponry, dressed in camouflage, what ever next ?

    And finally, what pistol training do people in the UK need ? So your explanation of the possible use of CO2 handguns for pistol training is totally redundant seeing as how they are illegal to own here anyhow so no training is ever going to be needed, they're just for fun and should be treated as such. But just because they're fun doesn't make them a toy for adolescent youths, they're fun for anyone who's interested and you should just leave it at that.

    Right, I'm glad I got that off my chest, that was very cathartic......
    Very well said indeed. I must be one of these gunfighter wannabes that the maligning individual above is referring to so I heartily agree with all you have written in response.
    David.

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    Jeez, very suprised at the aggressive comments on this thread. Love all my guns, from the post WW2 BSA/Diana's/Webleys up to newish CO2 pistols.
    Think we have enough issues with Big Brother - look at what happened in Scotland - without fighting amongst ourselves.
    Webley Mk3 x2, Falcon & Junior rifles, HW35x2, AirSporter x2, Gold Star, Meteors x2, Diana 25. SMK B19, Webley Senior, Premier, Hurricane x 2, Tempest, Dan Wesson 8", Crosman 3576, Legends PO8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullSeeker View Post
    Maybe when somebody substantiates that claim you'll then substantiate your claim....

    Sounds like some of the BB gunfighter wannabes are trying to elevate their fun guns beyond the traditional product placement of adolescent playthings...

    You can prove that can you ? Or is that just your 'off the cuff' opinion of all CO2 handgun collectors ?

    Most of the people I know that shoot and collect CO2 replica handguns are well over 40, most are into their 50's ! As a lot of us were full bore pistol shooters before the Govt. executed operation 'Snatch Back' and since then we have been left with a yearning for any sort of realistic handgun shooting here in the UK. CO2 handguns may well be just plinkers but they are capable of good accuracy right out to 60ft (and before you even question that, yes that can be proved). But that's more down to the shooter than the gun and that maybe where your out dated opinion comes from......you're just a bad shot with a handgun and one of the many people who blamed the gun rather than facing up to the fact that your just rubbish at it.

    As for your derogatory remarks towards other members of the air gun fraternity (bb gunfighter wannabes), this only goes to show the narrow minded opinion that you have towards anybody outside of your own very narrow interests. Unfortunately this reflects badly on the hobby/sport in general and certainly does not endear you to new comers seeking sage advice in our wonderful hobby.

    Well done for being such a complete arse hat and doing so very little to encourage people to have fun doing whatever they want with whatever they want. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even like airsofters or paintballers either, gosh people having fun with air powered weaponry, dressed in camouflage, what ever next ?

    And finally, what pistol training do people in the UK need ? So your explanation of the possible use of CO2 handguns for pistol training is totally redundant seeing as how they are illegal to own here anyhow so no training is ever going to be needed, they're just for fun and should be treated as such. But just because they're fun doesn't make them a toy for adolescent youths, they're fun for anyone who's interested and you should just leave it at that.

    Right, I'm glad I got that off my chest, that was very cathartic......
    Jesus, you're a touchy little man aren't you...

    If you believe that any of the current replica BB guns are anything beyond playthings you're sadly deluded and I'm not too shabby with a handgun - but I look forward to you proving your own boasted accuracy with them at "out to 60' "...

    I have no objection to fun gunning whatsoever and with some imagination the BB guns are just that - but trying to elevate them to anything much beyond that is too much of a reach.

    Meanwhile, I'm sure your vitriolic little diatribe says more about your own arse hattery than my deliberate bit of cage rattling - you'll probably fit in well with your attitude.

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    Careful now...

    "If you believe that any of the current replica BB guns are anything beyond playthings you're sadly deluded …"

    The law may be an ass, but the law defines airguns as firearms, not playthings.

    As an example of how your logic could be applied, what about clay pigeon shooting? it's an activity where people use a firearm to shoot at targets.

    If using a co2 replica is also an activity where people use a firearm to shoot at targets, surely your definition must make shotguns mere playthings...
    Too many guns, or not enough time?

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