A Webley Wednesday

[laverdabru]

A little while back, thought I'd do some pistol shooting - thanks, by the way to Grr, who gave me some useful advice after my last post on the subject. Set up a 6 yard range, got my eye in with a Crosman 3576, then picked out 4 of my Wobblys, all in .22 apart from the Tempest.

First out of the spare room was a Senior. I couldn't remember why, after buying it, I hardly used it. Then I cocked it - round 2/3's of the way through the cocking stroke it felt rough & 'graunchy' - only did about 10 shots, it honestly felt like something was going to break. I wonder if at some stage the wrong cocking link has been fitted, I recall reading somewhere it was changed on later models? Grouped well enough, given my limited ability.

Next up, an early (4 pin?) Premier. Oh, dear. Felt OK, nice & smooth, but 'Barn Door Syndrome' returned with a vengeance. Could see the pellets in flight, arching up high & to the right. Altered the rear sight, but the best group I could get was circa 2" to the right, & 4" above my point of aim. Not seen anything like it since my 'banana barrelled' Mk 1 back in the day. Looked through the barrel, looks straight enough.

The .177 Tempest was next. Bought it boxed for a low price from the smalls in the back of an airgun mag - the mag was several months old, & I'd rung on the off chance. I'd fired it a few times. put it away. It was a pleasant suprise, when after a play with the sights, it was joint best of the day. Think it'll be coming out its' box more often.

Last, the Hurricane I've owned for 30 odd years. I've got 3 or 4 Hurries, & this is the best of them. It's survived being dropped, girlfriend throwing it away after we'd had a row (gun survived, but the original green baize box was toast) stepson & brother 'borrowing' it for years, my late brothers' ham-fisted attempts at tuning, shroud, sights & trigger guard being repaired with superglue, but it still shoots better than the others. Definitly the last gun I'd sell of the pistols.

[Abasmajor]

Hi,
Learning to shoot these old spring powered air pistols accurately takes a while and many give up before giving it some time to get right. I've found .177 to be the best calibre for spring pistols and only achieve reasonable accuracy in .22 calibre when using CO2 powered pistols. Even in well maintained Webley .22 pistols, I can sometimes see the pellet going down range at 10 yds range. From the normally taught elements of air pistol shooting, I have also found "Follow Through" ie staying on aim for a few seconds after releasing the trigger, to result in the biggest improvement in results with the least effort.

Brian

[laverdabru]

Hi, Brian

Thanks for the thoughts re .177 vs .22. I've shot Webley pistols since my first airgun, a tin grip Junior, back in the '70's. None of them seem to shoot the same. Spent this arvo with the Tempest .177 & my 'old' Hurricane .22. The Hurri was grouping slightly better, but as I've owned it for 30 years no doubt I've adapted to it. Think I've got a .177 Hurri somewhere in the spare room, fitted with a Webley pistol 'scope. I'll replace it with the standard sights & give that a try. When I find it!
Must admit, never tried a CO2 pistol in .22. Got a DW & Crosman in .177 pellet, & a BB PO8.

ATB

Bru

[Abasmajor]

Hi, Brian

Thanks for the thoughts re .177 vs .22. I've shot Webley pistols since my first airgun, a tin grip Junior, back in the '70's. None of them seem to shoot the same. Spent this arvo with the Tempest .177 & my 'old' Hurricane .22. The Hurri was grouping slightly better, but as I've owned it for 30 years no doubt I've adapted to it. Think I've got a .177 Hurri somewhere in the spare room, fitted with a Webley pistol 'scope. I'll replace it with the standard sights & give that a try. When I find it!
Must admit, never tried a CO2 pistol in .22. Got a DW & Crosman in .177 pellet, & a BB PO8.

ATB

Bru

Hello,

The most accurate .22 air pistol I own is a CO2 powered Crosman 150 which can hold under 2" groups at 10 metres when I do my bit. I have Webley air pistols in both calibres, but can only match this with a .177 Premier again providing I do my bit. Still great fun to shoot though and if I had to choose between spring and gas power, it would be spring every time. Although minimal, the recoil characteristics of a spring powered air pistol probably make them a bit harder to shoot as accurately.

Brian

[Dutch]

Excellent sharp pistol training with the all steel Webley's, with the Premier (if the piston washer/spring are in good condition) a better perfomer than the Senior. Also only .177, as the early spring pistols are a bit underpowered for the .22. If you dial in the sights of any of the oldies you cant go wrong on a 6-10ft home made range is my experience. The Tempest is definitely a better sports pistol (smooth cocking, power supply, ergonomics weight distribution, sights), but misses the nostalgic of the full steel specimens.

The CO2 pistols (couple of early crosmans, o.a mk2) are even better for hunting score cart points, but are a bit dull to shoot. Must say love to shoot the Softair Replica CO2 pistols indoors at 6ft. Lots of fun to shoot them semi auto (custom tuned & dressed by me, check pics below). The weight, action, mechanism & toggling all work incredibly realistic together.

[ggggr]

A little while back, thought I'd do some pistol shooting - thanks, by the way to Grr, who gave me some useful advice after my last post on the subject. Set up a 6 yard range, got my eye in with a Crosman 3576, then picked out 4 of my Wobblys, all in .22 apart from the Tempest.

First out of the spare room was a Senior. I couldn't remember why, after buying it, I hardly used it. Then I cocked it - round 2/3's of the way through the cocking stroke it felt rough & 'graunchy' - only did about 10 shots, it honestly felt like something was going to break. I wonder if at some stage the wrong cocking link has been fitted, I recall reading somewhere it was changed on later models? Grouped well enough, given my limited ability.

Next up, an early (4 pin?) Premier. Oh, dear. Felt OK, nice & smooth, but 'Barn Door Syndrome' returned with a vengeance. Could see the pellets in flight, arching up high & to the right. Altered the rear sight, but the best group I could get was circa 2" to the right, & 4" above my point of aim. Not seen anything like it since my 'banana barrelled' Mk 1 back in the day. Looked through the barrel, looks straight enough.

The .177 Tempest was next. Bought it boxed for a low price from the smalls in the back of an airgun mag - the mag was several months old, & I'd rung on the off chance. I'd fired it a few times. put it away. It was a pleasant suprise, when after a play with the sights, it was joint best of the day. Think it'll be coming out its' box more often.

Last, the Hurricane I've owned for 30 odd years. I've got 3 or 4 Hurries, & this is the best of them. It's survived being dropped, girlfriend throwing it away after we'd had a row (gun survived, but the original green baize box was toast) stepson & brother 'borrowing' it for years, my late brothers' ham-fisted attempts at tuning, shroud, sights & trigger guard being repaired with superglue, but it still shoots better than the others. Definitly the last gun I'd sell of the pistols.

Always nice to have a plink
Ok--lets try to sort the Premier and the Senior.
The Premier first. If you can see the pellets easily at 6 yards it is probably underpowered. (more in a bit). With the Webley pistol they can take a bit to settle after not being used for a while or after having bits put in. Sometimes after doing one, i find they can take about 150 shots to settle. Usually the accuracy will be all over the place and you cannot set your sights as you cannot get a good constant grouping. A barrel clean is always a good idea on the Webleys.
Your breech seal may be a bit iffy, BUT with the symptoms you are describing, it could be you need a new mainspring. Ive seen this problem in the past with low powered guns, where you can see the pellet spiral in flight. I think the springs get a bit too tired and any tightness of pellet makes a difference. You can try sizing the pellets by pushing them through the barrel first. This will probably make the gun shoot a bit more accurately and with a little more power. I'd be inclined to get the endplug/ guide off and have a look at the mainspring and compare it to the Senior one.

The Senior. I would strip this before using it again. I have seen Webley pistols where the back of the piston digs into the bottom of the cylinder. It seems worse with modern lubes than a straight oil.
IF there is scoring on the bottom of the cylinder, you will have to remove it and relube the gun and try it again. You may have to do it a few times. On a particulary bad Premier Mk2 I looked at for someone, i had one of those little sanding sleeves on a bit of rubber (you see them in kits in Lidl and Aldi) and had to clean the cylinder up with one of those after filing
It is best to lube the Webleys with straight sae30 oil. I use chainsaw oil.
If the cylinder and piston are not scored, look to see it the cocking link is starting to wear the fulcrum. This sometimes occurs more when the little cocking shoe is wearing.
Also check that the cocking shoe is not catching either in the sides of the slot or on the inside of the cylinder. Sometimes the cocking shoe needs cleaning up a bit with a small file and some emery paper.
After checking this stuff, clean the gun out and lube with the sae 30 oil. I do often use Gn paste on the surfaces before using the oil.

Hopefully your pistols will be plinking well soon.

[laverdabru]

Thanks for the advice, looks like the kitchen tables going to be busy on my next day off - if I can get away with it - or I'll have to sort out the spare room
Just bought some SAE30 for the mower, a happy coincidence. Interesting point re lubes - my other hobby is motorbikes, & some of the older ones you do not use modern fully synthetic oils in, causes clutch slip & other problems.
I'll have a look at the Premier first - thinking about it, it did seem easier to cock than the other Webleys, & I may have a spare spring somewhere. Will take me back to the '70's, & stripping a tin grip Junior & '50's Mk 1.
The Senior, yes, not happy about using it as it is. Have got a Dremel/files/emery paper.
What do you recommend as a cleaning agent? I usually have paraffin/white & surgical spirit/GT85/WD40/Gunk to hand for jobs on the motor/push bikes.

Thanks again

Bru

[ggggr]

Thanks for the advice, looks like the kitchen tables going to be busy on my next day off - if I can get away with it - or I'll have to sort out the spare room
Just bought some SAE30 for the mower, a happy coincidence. Interesting point re lubes - my other hobby is motorbikes, & some of the older ones you do not use modern fully synthetic oils in, causes clutch slip & other problems.
I'll have a look at the Premier first - thinking about it, it did seem easier to cock than the other Webleys, & I may have a spare spring somewhere. Will take me back to the '70's, & stripping a tin grip Junior & '50's Mk 1.
The Senior, yes, not happy about using it as it is. Have got a Dremel/files/emery paper.
What do you recommend as a cleaning agent? I usually have paraffin/white & surgical spirit/GT85/WD40/Gunk to hand for jobs on the motor/push bikes.

Thanks again

Bru

I usually use Meths to degrease then Isopropyl alcohol (IPA) after on a bit of kitchen towel on a dowel to get the left over crud off. Surgical spirit is IPA.
Make sure you dont get a bit of kitchen towel left in the end of the cylinder---a few of us have been caught out like that

[harvey_s]

Were you using modern 5.5mm pellets in these?
That won't help if you were...

Older 'proper' .22 (5.6mm) pellets may help both with power and accuracy.

[laverdabru]

Apols for not replying sooner - got called into work - amazing how at getting on 61, I'm not off sick, but the youngsters (40 down to teens) often are. And guess who has to cover for them?

Yes, always use 'proper 5.6mm' in my older guns. Either Wasps or Marksman.

Grrrr - found some evidence of breech seal butchery on the Premier. Spring looked OK. The piston is reluctant to come out, will have a better look on my next day off.

Better get back to domesticity, or I'll be on the naughty step with Mrs laverdabru.

ATB

Bru