Collecting value of a Webley Mark 1 Rifle in .177 vs .22

[45flint]

Our Blue Book says to add 30% to the value of a Webley Mark 1 Rifle if it is in .22. Curious the rarity of the .22 caliber in this rifle. Does this extra value hold in the U.K. as well?

[WebleyWombler]

Some sellers would have you believe that but Chris Thrale's book suggests production numbers were about even for both calibres. Personally I don't think that one calibre is rarer than the other.

[Binners]

They may have been produced in even numbers, but I have seen more rifles in .177 on a ratio of 3-1.

[45flint]

They may have been produced in even numbers, but I have seen more rifles in .177 on a ratio of 3-1.

It’s a small not that powerful rifle I think .177 makes the most sense? Mine may have been imported to the US where .22 was more accepted?

[WebleyWombler]

They may have been produced in even numbers, but I have seen more rifles in .177 on a ratio of 3-1.

You must be very selective in your viewing and I can't understand how you arrived at that ratio. could you explain it to me please? Impressions are not always correct
Being a bit Anal here
When Chris Thrale wrote his book, he listed serial numbers and calibres as were available to him at the time. The guns recorded with Calibres noted numbered 84. of these, 46 are in .177 and 38 in .22. I know the calibres of 3 rifles that do not appear in his list and they are 2 in .22 and 1 in .177

so, in total 47 in .177 and 40 in .22 . That is a far cry from a 3-1 ratio. My suspicion is that professional sellers are embellishing facts to make their sales appear more desirable.

Undoubtably, Webley found the rifles very hard to sell so I feel a good proportion were 'Dumped' on overseas markets and we shall never know the true figures but on the evidence available, Mr Thrale is quite correct in his suppositions

[45flint]

There was a similar feeling in the US that the Crosman Town and Country rifle was much rarer in .177. I started a log on the American Vintage Airgun Forum and over time had over 30 rifles. It did show that the .177 was rarer but certainly not by enough to make it worth 2X the .22. If you have enough observations statistics will tell you that your estimate of total production can be pretty accurate.

[Binners]

You must be very selective in your viewing and I can't understand how you arrived at that ratio. could you explain it to me please? Impressions are not always correct
Being a bit Anal here
When Chris Thrale wrote his book, he listed serial numbers and calibres as were available to him at the time. The guns recorded with Calibres noted numbered 84. of these, 46 are in .177 and 38 in .22. I know the calibres of 3 rifles that do not appear in his list and they are 2 in .22 and 1 in .177

so, in total 47 in .177 and 40 in .22 . That is a far cry from a 3-1 ratio. My suspicion is that professional sellers are embellishing facts to make their sales appear more desirable.

Undoubtably, Webley found the rifles very hard to sell so I feel a good proportion were 'Dumped' on overseas markets and we shall never know the true figures but on the evidence available, Mr Thrale is quite correct in his suppositions

Not really selective Mr Wombler. I tend to leave replies to the more experienced Webley collectors on the forum and sorry that you could not understand how I arrived at my conclusion. Five of the Six pictured below are .177, but that may well be just fate.

[gingernut]

Five to one in Surrey then?

Difficult to dispute that on the evidence provided.

[WebleyWombler]

Five to one in Surrey then?

Difficult to dispute that on the evidence provided.

I'll go along with that. I've actually seen or noted a pretty even balance of calibres and have both. I think Peters set is indeed fate

[evert]

Our Blue Book says to add 30% to the value of a Webley Mark 1 Rifle if it is in .22. Curious the rarity of the .22 caliber in this rifle. Does this extra value hold in the U.K. as well?

¨

The blue book says a lot of strange things, both on prices and velocity.
If you look up "Elmek" air rifles, it says they are persumably Danish, and worth extremely much.
They were made here in Norway during the 50s, and are quite common here. Prices are usually in the 50-150 dollars range when you find them.

[Binners]

Five to one in Surrey then?

Difficult to dispute that on the evidence provided.

Ah but, there are a few exceptions, with two barrels of pairs. So the Book of Webley Air rifles is the bible in my eyes. In fact the book is the best Air Rifle book out there, only my humble opinion though.

[WebleyWombler]

Until John publishes his eagerly awaited book on BSAs?

Seriously though, you do know how to upset people , I'd almost give my eye teeth ( actually can't as the NHS had them years ago) for a pair of those early cardboard pellet boxes and your collection of MkIs far exceeds my dreams of owning more. They are actually a kids gun and I can see why they lost out to the BSA range, but I like them.

[Josie & John]

For what it's worth with Troubledshooter's help, I have added to Chris's list of known Mark I rifles and with the addition of Steve's new acquisition the list now has a grand total of 119 serial numbers.

Of these, 65 are in .177 and 50 in .22

2 of the above have both .177 and .22 calibre barrels

5 are unknown and 1 has replacement barrels in both calibres.

I have also encountered more .177 examples than .22 over the last 30 or so years, not that the Webley Mark I is common by any means.

I too am deeply envious of Peter's excellent collection of Mark Is!

Kind regards,

John

[45flint]

For what it's worth with Troubledshooter's help, I have added to Chris's list of known Mark I rifles and with the addition of Steve's new acquisition the list now has a grand total of 119 serial numbers.

Of these, 65 are in .177 and 50 in .22

2 of the above have both .177 and .22 calibre barrels

5 are unknown and 1 has replacement barrels in both calibres.

I have also encountered more .177 examples than .22 over the last 30 or so years, not that the Webley Mark I is common by any means.

I too am deeply envious of Peter's excellent collection of Mark Is!

Kind regards,

John

Wow didn’t realize that there were that few known. I was reading in the book that these were exported throughout the colonies. Could be scatter far and wide. First one I have seen in the US but I have only been in the hobby 5 years. Stoeger had quite a following. Certainly with Webley pistols. Given the build quality you have to assume a high percentage survived?

[slug-gun]

Our Blue Book says to add 30% to the value of a Webley Mark 1 Rifle if it is in .22. Curious the rarity of the .22 caliber in this rifle. Does this extra value hold in the U.K. as well?

Personally I consider the calibre to be largely an irrelevance really, as it's all about the condition?