this section of the forum

[ggggr]

After the thread about the age of the people in this bit of the forum I wonder what people think will happen to this section in the near future?

Things are new, then they get older, then they become junk before becoming collectable. Well thats what happens with most things. I guess I have very little interest once you get past the Bsa Mercury /Airsporter and the Webley Vulcan/ Osprey. I dont like the 2 piece cocking arms on some of the later guns and I would not be intereted in a Bsa with a maxi rail thing
Some things are deemed as "collectable" that seem new to me, the Co2 replica things etc. I couldnt develop an interest in them.

I like things to be simple, pretty robust and to not need charging, pumping or Co2 bulbs.

I also like to mess with some of the older abused things and maybe try to simplify them or try to get rid of some of the problems with the guns ( like "tuning" the trigger on a Tempest or getting the Milbro Cougar one a bit better).

I think this section seems to turn over slower than it used to? I wonder if it is some of the older members pegging out, people losing interest or that there is only so much you can say about some things? Also, in the future, would you still be looking at this bit if it was full of Dan Wesson things and Makarovs and (what are now) modern rifles?

[Jerry Cornelius]

I think the usual answer is people collect what they wanted as children. (I would like to say I am much too young to have wanted a Britannia when I was a child though). Certainly you see this with motorbikes, which used to be all about 1960s British machines (owed by misery guts mainly) but now 1970s and 80s Japanese bikes are very desirable, well, the better ones are anyway

I would certainly think there are guns being made today of the quality to be collectible, the “problem” will be the volume of production. Eg I would say the pro elite is already a collectible (only about 1400 made) but although the pro sport is a very desirable gun and everyone should have two , it’s going to be a long time before it’s rare enough to be a real collectible

[Phil Russell]

I can see where you are coming from Guy. in terms of shooting, my preference is a nice springer although I do own a couple of pcp's. For 'tinkering' I really enjoy the older springers upto around Mercury age. I would be quite happy stripping more recent ones, indeed I recently sorted out the twang from an HW98, but I have a feeling that as more synthetics come to be used in construction then the appeal of fettling the now modern guns in the future will diminish.
Do the younger generation have the same fettling instinct as us more mature people? When it comes to quality springers of the likes of HW, AA, BSA et al then maybe so but will that remain with them into old age? I don't know. Will the new, lower market end (say <£200) springers become collectable in future? Maybe, but at the same time will spares continue to be available to allow fettling / repairs to be carried out in 20, 30 or more years time.
I don't think collecting will die out and fully expect younger people to see the attraction of the current old guns and so keep collecting alive.
CO2? I can see dedicated collectors keeping them going in collections but, like you, I have no particular desire to collect CO2 replica models myself.
PCP's? As above, I have a couple but they are for shooting and I enjoy it .. not hunting but plinking / HFT. Repair of PCP's? As needs must. A sense of satisfaction when it seals again, yes, but an active desire to delve into the workings of one? no.
I can see some older PCP's becoming very collectable ... think the early AA offerings (NJR, 100/300 series) or the early Daystates (Huntsman 1 & 2) but I think it will be a good few years before the modern offers from Turkey et al become true collectables.
Sorry for the somewhat disjointed post.
Cheers, Phil

[Josie & John]

I don't believe something has to be old to be collectable. For instance, some collect modern limited edition PCPs or even spring guns such as the HW77. We all have our particular interests and see beauty where others may not. And long may that continue as it would be a sad and boring world if we all aspired to own the same things.

And yes, I would still frequent this section if there was more focus on the Baikal Makarov; speaking of which, I am on the lookout for examples from every year of production, so if anyone has one that may be of interest, please get in touch!

The Mak' is an example of a modern classic and is collectable despite still being in production. For me, part of the appeal is the pistol is made of firearms grade materials and built to a standard usually associated with classic BSA and Webley airguns rather than more modern CO2 replicas.

Enjoy....whatever you decide to collect.

John

[Fronteria]

I don't believe something has to be old to be collectable. For instance, some collect modern limited edition PCPs or even spring guns such as the HW77. We all have our particular interests and see beauty where others may not. And long may that continue as it would be a sad and boring world if we all aspired to own the same things.

And yes, I would still frequent this section if there was more focus on the Baikal Makarov; speaking of which, I am on the lookout for examples from every year of production, so if anyone has one that may be of interest, please get in touch!

The Mak' is an example of a modern classic and is collectable despite still being in production. For me, part of the appeal is the pistol is made of firearms grade materials and built to a standard usually associated with classic BSA and Webley airguns rather than more modern CO2 replicas.

Enjoy....whatever you decide to collect.

John

Hi. John
I think some people collect for profit, instead of enjoyment of ownership and the interest and enjoyment in using and researching the items that they collect, the other thing collectors do is preserve the items they have for future generations, it is then up to them to decide if they are rubbish or whether it is worth continuing to preserve them.
Regards Jeff

[WebleyWombler]

I believe that airguns and collectors will be legislated out of existence in the not too distant future by the snowflake generation as they become more mature and begin taking power.

Just enjoy what you do whilst you can and forget about old air guns as 'investments '

[I. J.]

I believe that airguns and collectors will be legislated out of existence in the not too distant future by the snowflake generation as they become more mature and begin taking power.

Just enjoy what you do whilst you can and forget about old air guns as 'investments '

Totally agree. I get great pleasure in just handling my springers (I can no longer cock a springer due to increased 'Arthur' ) and enjoying the (mainly German ) engineering and wood work.

I now only shoot pcp rifle and pistols indoors, rifle over 50m , but there is some classic pcp's available at reasonable money. Ive a few GC2s which ooze build quality, a 1985 Daystate FTR and only last week picked up an A A Pro Target off here (thank you Rotheram Owl ). Ive also got my eye on a highly modified A A Shamal.

Enjoy whatever you collect, while you can - even Wobblys.

ATB
Ian

[Abasmajor]

Totally agree. I get great pleasure in just handling my springers (I can no longer cock a springer due to increased 'Arthur' ) and enjoying the (mainly German ) engineering and wood work.

Enjoy whatever you collect, while you can - even Wobblys.

ATB
Ian

Hello IJ,
Do I sense some mellowing accompanying the passing years ?

Brian

[45flint]

I think you may be overly pessimistic? I started collecting airguns because many to me are mechanical works of art from a age where handwork was a large part of the manufacturing process. I think that will always be appreciated, but our generation may have pushed the price of these collectibles beyond the reach of many in the coming generation? I think in the future prices may adjust downward as collections are liquidated opening up collecting to a new generation? It’s hard for me to hold my recently purchase Webley Mark 1 and think this will not be appreciated in the future? It is an example of quality machining, intriguing dated design, covered in intriguing rolled script. And it does something interesting. Many collectibles just sit. Can’t deal with the British legal situation but in the US I think these will be a legal safe haven for collectors of firearms?

[ggggr]

I can see where you are coming from Guy. in terms of shooting, my preference is a nice springer although I do own a couple of pcp's. For 'tinkering' I really enjoy the older springers upto around Mercury age. I would be quite happy stripping more recent ones,
Cheers, Phil

Hi Phil-----I dont like Gamos even though I've never opened up a modern/ modern one. The latest i did was a Mk6 Metoer, which is a gun that would be fine for someone to own , but not for me. I find the Gamos so souless. I've done a Cf20 , did a ASI Magnum years ago, Paratroopers , Falcon and center pistols. I dont even like the idea of the later (for me) Meteors and Mercurys, with the built up cocking arms.

With spares now, I think people will stuggle with guns in the future. I think one of the last Webley Webley rifles that then became Turkish, had 3 different types of trigger? Ive been told that the cheaper Chinese made stuff, the triggers fail and you cannot get the bits / or they change the trigger design.
Mind you so of the crappy colelctable stuff like the gat/g10/ Ro72 you cannot get spares from.

I got a Baikal 53 recently and it has merits, but if you look at it compared to earlier versions it is built down to a price.
If I were to put one together for myself, It would have most of the older features (leather piston washer, alloy or steel breech block ,scope rail mounted rear sight, adjustable trigger) but have the modern ambi grip and the fixed front sight.

I do like the "feel" of a springer.
I dont consider myself as a collector, rather a big kid and some of the PROPER COLLECTABLE stuff would be wasted on me. I like to be able to plink with things as well and if a gun is not accurate enough to have fun plinking, its not much use to me.

Id love to try a plink with rough examples of some collectables but cost means it probably wont happen.

For me--its the "fun". I like the Webley Falcon and the little Baikal IJ22/ 38 for plinking and a good bit of fun can be had with a rough Bsa Cadet and SMK spitfire or Bulldog pellets.
Pistol wise, a Tempest takes some beating although most of the Webleys are fun. A Bsa Scorpion for killing bottle caps
Like I've said, I'm just a big kid

[I. J.]

Hello IJ,
Do I sense some mellowing accompanying the passing years ?

Brian

Nah ! The swear filter was kicking in.
Dont expect me to have a single good word for the Swamp Donkey (Relum Tornado).

[1shot1kill]

Totally agree. I get great pleasure in just handling my springers (I can no longer cock a springer due to increased 'Arthur' ) and enjoying the (mainly German ) engineering and wood work.

I now only shoot pcp rifle and pistols indoors, rifle over 50m , but there is some classic pcp's available at reasonable money. Ive a few GC2s which ooze build quality, a 1985 Daystate FTR and only last week picked up an A A Pro Target off here (thank you Rotheram Owl ). Ive also got my eye on a highly modified A A Shamal.

Enjoy whatever you collect, while you can - even Wobblys.

ATB
Ian

Who are you? & what have you done with Jonesy?
J.

[slug-gun]

Quality, Condition, Rarity and Provenance will always be sought after, in whichever field one is interested in. I cannot see for example Turkish Webleys ever being sought after other than for small money, as they fit none of the mentioned criteria. Same with a Mk.V1 Airsporter unless mint/boxed, or the monkey metal and leaky current Co2 pistols. Etc.

On the other hand something like a Westley-Richards Highest-Possible in nice original condition will always find a buyer, even if some form of licensing comes into play. And remember some of the guns are now approaching or are over 100 years old, and as such are antiques, and might not be covered by a licence anyway? Look at the prices obtained for quality shotguns?

As for the age thing, most collectors of anything tend to be older. As you grow you gain experience and wealth, (not always of course!) and your interest in the past may increase. So it will always be an older persons hobby. A 21 year old today, apart from the above, will be struggling to find a job, buy a house and afford a pension plan. So there will be little left over for buying old stuff to put in a cabinet!

30 years on and things change however? As some old codger said to me the other week, though in a different collecting field; "Buy mint and you'll never be skint!"

[piggy589]

What starts as quality remains quality,at least that was my dad's philosophy.

[Garvin]

Guy this section has an amazing capacity for self-renewal, driven mainly by collectors of prewar airguns, which is reason to be optimistic about the future of the forum for years to come, even as the occasional member drops out.

Take as examples the great contributions of just two relatively recent arrivals, 45flint in the US and Matt (ptdunk) over the past year or so, to name just two.

Then combine them with the long-standing collecting expertise of regular members John (ccdjg), John Milewski, Trev (cinedux), and slug-gun - all published authors - to name but four more.

Together this group alone makes it worth dropping in often.