Nice old German pellet tins

[ptdunk]

Just picked up a pair of empty tins to go with some old German .25 and .177 airguns,
does anyone know roughly when they were made?

I'm sure I have seen the similar tins marked 'rund kugeln' Kugeln Diabolo' and just 'Kugeln' so are these for slugs?

Cheers,
Matt

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[Garvin]

Very nice, thanks Matt. They look prewar but does anyone have a definite date for these?

[ccdjg]

Nice finds Matt. I would say 1920's -30's at a guess, based on the fact that the artwork on the tins look different to all the post-war Utendoeffer pellets I have ever seen, as does the light blue colour (post-war usually dark green, dark blue or most recent, metallic blue). But I am no pellet expert and could be wrong.

Although the tin doesn't say "Diabolo", as on their post-war waisted pellet tins, the side label "Mit Rippen", which means "with ribs", suggests that they would have been waisted pellets and not cup slugs.

[Garvin]

Nice finds Matt. I would say 1920's -30's at a guess, based on the fact that the artwork on the tins look different to all the post-war Utendoeffer pellets I have ever seen, as does the light blue colour (post-war usually dark green, dark blue or most recent, metallic blue). But I am no pellet expert and could be wrong.

Although the tin doesn't say "Diabolo", as on their post-war waisted pellet tins, the side label "Mit Rippen", which means "with ribs", suggests that they would have been waisted pellets and not cup slugs.

Interesting. Thanks John.

[ptdunk]

That’s great, thanks guys.

Very interesting John, I never would have thought to look up what ‘Mit Rippen’ means! Thank you.

Must have been a quite a new feature at the time for them to add a sticker to the tin.
It’ll house modern .25 pellets (sized down to 6.3mm) for the Hebelspanner so quite suitable.

The underside of the larger tin features a very nice design.
Lovely things.


Cheers,
Matt

[Farsight]

I see the smaller tin is NOT .177 : It's 4mm , not 4.5mm , so I wonder what gun they were fired out of, and where it is now.

I have vague memory that in Smith's Airguns of the World there is a copy of a page from a German catalogue that shows 3mm and maybe even smaller...

Never seen any guns like that ever !

Atb Mark

[45flint]

Beautiful things really.

[ptdunk]

I see the smaller tin is NOT .177 : It's 4mm , not 4.5mm , so I wonder what gun they were fired out of, and where it is now.

I have vague memory that in Smith's Airguns of the World there is a copy of a page from a German catalogue that shows 3mm and maybe even smaller...

Never seen any guns like that ever !

Atb Mark

That’s interesting, all the other little identical 100 tins from the same period are marked 4.5mm:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31228487@N07/3320439950/

Maybe it would correspond to a standard lead shot size? A 4mm pellet or slug would be tiny!

Cheers,
Matt

[ccdjg]

I checked through several vintage German catalogues and it seems that 4mm pellets (and darts) were readily available up to the late 1930’s. But only in Germany. The funny things is though, I cannot find a single example of a rifle or pistol that was sold in that calibre. Perhaps such guns were exclusive to the German arcade/shooting game trade, as I know they tended to favour odd calibres.

The only gun I have in 4mm calibre is this Lindner gallery pistol, dating from about 1875. This has always been a pain to shoot as I have never been able to access suitable pellets or darts anywhere, and have to use very expensive steel ball bearings, making sure I recycle them. So if anyone knows a supply of 4mm lead shot I would be eternally grateful.

[ptdunk]

I checked through several vintage German catalogues and it seems that 4mm pellets (and darts) were readily available up to the late 1930’s. But only in Germany. The funny things is though, I cannot find a single example of a rifle or pistol that was sold in that calibre. Perhaps such guns were exclusive to the German arcade/shooting game trade, as I know they tended to favour odd calibres.

The only gun I have in 4mm calibre is this Lindner gallery pistol, dating from about 1875. This has always been a pain to shoot as I have never been able to access suitable pellets or darts anywhere, and have to use very expensive steel ball bearings, making sure I recycle them. So if anyone knows a supply of 4mm lead shot I would be eternally grateful.

If you can’t find any I could probably size down some 4.5mm lead balls for you.
I did it with .22 ones and as long as you clean up after it works a treat:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....own-lead-balls

I’d be happy to help.
Cheers,

Matt

[edbear2]

I had a few of these back before I disposed of my collection;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/312284...7607964699940/

At the time I found a German website with mainly military and sporting ammo on, but it was archived by brands, so the Utendoerffer brand had a few pellet tins included with all the powder stuff, I recall they were stated to be prewar and as mentioned are great colourful items especially on the base,with all the gold medals etc.




They had a huge company range, a bit like a German Kynoch dating back to 1855 then acquired by RWS, and their stamp can be found on every type of military and hunting pistol and rifle ammo.

I never did nail down the exact age recall was 1930's but don't quote me after all this time!, but German sites are the place to look, I just wish I could recall the one I saw. Link below which has some interesting photos;

http://www.patronensammlervereinigun...ts_archiv.html

Google H.Utendoerffer Kugeln and see what occurs as a starter

ATB, Ed

[Farsight]

That’s interesting, all the other little identical 100 tins from the same period are marked 4.5mm:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31228487@N07/3320439950/

Maybe it would correspond to a standard lead shot size? A 4mm pellet or slug would be tiny!

Cheers,
Matt

Now home and have the Smith book out ! Page 102 : darts and ball in 2mm and 3mm, and darts, ball and slug in 4mm ! There is a daft looking 6.2 mm into the bargain...round ,with a bit of a stalk on it !

There is a field of research here for an intrigued Englishman. I wonder if there are any Germans looking in that could enlighten us - or me, anyway !

Mark

[ccdjg]

If you can’t find any I could probably size down some 4.5mm lead balls for you.
I did it with .22 ones and as long as you clean up after it works a treat:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....own-lead-balls

I’d be happy to help.
Cheers,

Matt

Thanks Matt. I had forgotten that great link, so I will definitely be giving it a try. I also managed to source some 4mm brass tubing a few months back, with the intention of making custom darts, and when I have figured out the best way to go about it, I will also be giving that a try.
Cheers,
John

[ptdunk]

Thanks Matt. I had forgotten that great link, so I will definitely be giving it a try. I also managed to source some 4mm brass tubing a few months back, with the intention of making custom darts, and when I have figured out the best way to go about it, I will also be giving that a try.
Cheers,
John

If it’s 4mm you want then BB sized lead shot is 4.01mm of you haven’t tried it already?

https://www.henrykrank.com/muzzle-lo...t-7kg-tub.html

Sure it can be found in smaller quantities than 7kg though!

I was also thinking of turning some extra long 6.3mm darts as they used to offer very long darts for precision shooting. I tried .25 darts in my Hebelspanner but they were much less accurate than sized pellets.......
Another thing on my ‘to do’ list

Matt

[RustyBuzz]

What strikes me, is that the squirrel looks to be what RWS copied for their Diabolo pellet.

With that long thin silhouette, even the twin branches, it looks like the RWS design is almost traced from this one.