Loading 44/40 with blackpowder.

[martindl99]

I am shortly getting a 44/40 rifle. I really fancy using blackpowder as opposed to nitro. Anybody use this route? I have a quantity of Czech blackpowder which I think is equal to a fine powder. Would this be suitable for cartridge reloading? I am a bit concerned that this powder is a bit "pokey". I know Swiss is great for this calibre and will consider getting some when my stock is depleted. But, for now, any advice, guidance would be appreciated. I am not new to reloading just not tried the magic black.


Many thanks for your helpful comments. My main concern was the fine-ish powder.

[DesG]

The 44 40 was designed for the black stuff. The 40 designates 40 gn of bp. 45 70 was 70gn of bp etc. You can’t get enough bp into the case to do any harm and it really is great fun. It feels totally different to fire. The cases get filthy very quickly though. Take a pot of soapy water with you to chuck the cases in when you fire them. Have fun!

[tacfoley]

If you intend to shoot this BP load in a lever action of some kind, please be aware that it is HORRENDOUSLY mucky, and the only way to correctly clean the gun is to learn to strip and assemble it pretty much down to the last component ASAP after shooting it.

Revolvers back when we could have them on the Mainland UK, were similarly gunged-up- but were much easier to clean.

Great fun, though. If you really want to see how dirty a BP load can be, watch Hickock45 using a BP load in a Glock pistol on Youtube!!!

[DesG]

Apparently the martini action rifles wouldn’t chamber the rounds after a few shots due to powder fouling in front of the chamber and that led to the zulu massacre.

[Turnup]

Blackpowder is very forgiving because the pressure/burn rate curve is much flatter than nitro. It is really difficult to overload a muzzle loader and I would imagine it is impossible to overload a cartridge. Although BPs do vary in performance the differences are not great enough to lead to safety concerns. Some will perform better than others but will do so safely. Excessively fine powders will actually burn slower because there are less spaces between granules to allow sparks to propagate. Go ahead and enjoy!

[tacfoley]

Apparently the martini action rifles wouldn’t chamber the rounds after a few shots due to powder fouling in front of the chamber and that led to the zulu massacre.

There are a number of reasons why the British were overwhelmed at Isandhlwana, but fouling was not one of them. The MAIN cause was the way that the troops in the outer defence lines were deployed at ten-yard spaces - giving the 5000+ Zulu ample time to rush and overwhelm them.

There is an excellent movie on Youtube that examines this facet of the action, and uses reenactment to show how it took place. Remember that the soldiers were standing still, and the Zulu were running at them at around 15mph...

[DesG]

There are a number of reasons why the British were overwhelmed at Isandhlwana, but fouling was not one of them. The MAIN cause was the way that the troops in the outer defence lines were deployed at ten-yard spaces - giving the 5000+ Zulu ample time to rush and overwhelm them.

There is an excellent movie on Youtube that examines this facet of the action, and uses reenactment to show how it took place. Remember that the soldiers were standing still, and the Zulu were running at them at around 15mph...

Exactly that. There was a very good documentary about it some time ago and there are any number of documents relating to the problems of using bp in Martini Henrys. They were indeed spread out too thinly so when their rifles needed attention to get them functional again they didn't have sufficient covering fire from their colleagues to sustain a rapid rate of fire, so fouling was indeed a contributary factor. It is seldom one cause that leads to catastrophy.

[loiner1965]

Apparently the martini action rifles wouldn’t chamber the rounds after a few shots due to powder fouling in front of the chamber and that led to the zulu massacre.

i cannot see that to be honest as i regular shoot 20 plus full bp loads in mine without issue.....remember the early martini henry cases were foil rather than drawn brass.
i can see it being an issue with 50 plus shots in the heat of battle

[Bryan Austin]

I am shortly getting a 44/40 rifle. I really fancy using blackpowder as opposed to nitro. Anybody use this route? I have a quantity of Czech blackpowder which I think is equal to a fine powder. Would this be suitable for cartridge reloading? I am a bit concerned that this powder is a bit "pokey". I know Swiss is great for this calibre and will consider getting some when my stock is depleted. But, for now, any advice, guidance would be appreciated. I am not new to reloading just not tried the magic black.


Many thanks for your helpful comments. My main concern was the fine-ish powder.

Swiss is a superior powder.

Use Unique out to 50/75 yards
Use Reloder 7 out to 200 yards.


https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester

[thibben]

Martin,

The bullet and lube you use will make a difference on accuracy and consistency of operation, I'm assuming here you will be using lead bullets

Normal smokeless lubes do not work very well with BP, something like SPG is a very good lube off the shelf, if not you can easy make BP lube.

Also the hardness of the bullet makes a significant difference in BPCR's such as 45-70, 40-65's etc, not familiar with smaller capacity cases like the 44-40, but too hard a bullet and you will not get good accuracy. The BP explodes and 'smacks' the base of the bullet which then obturates into the rifling nicely. Too hard a bullet alloy (such as you find in cast bullets for smokeless) and this does not happen. This is also why and over powder wad is good in BP cartridges.

The choice of primer is more critical with BP, been lots of work carried out re. magnum vs standard, under powder or over primer paper discs/wads but again more related to the larger BPCR calibres.

Brgds Terry

[Bryan Austin]

If using BP, try to stick with the Lyman 427098 or any of the replica bullets. These are proven bullets accurate to 300 meters.

Th replica bullets are some of the 43-2xx series bullets from Accurate molds: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=43-214A-D.png

The 43-214A is the one I submitted and it works great with both black powder and smokeless.

For details, look here:https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...lds?authuser=0

[Bryan Austin]

I have created a website for the 44-40 cartridge. There is tons of information there. I mean TONS!

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester

It wouldn't be here if not for the 44-40 community helping me gather some of the information. Much I have done on my own but some just can't be found without help.

What I am working on now is 44-40 Winchester and Western ammunition manufacture dates. Although some early boxes are not dated for manufacture, the labels themselves are dated and can give us an idea of when they found a home. From about 1928 to present, the boxes were stamped on the inside flap with a code. There is much to the code. Some early codes were all numbers and then by around 1948ish the code used letters and numbers. A few guys busted the code and I have applied what I could just to the 44-40 Win. and Western manufactures.

What I would like is for all of you guys that have 44-40 ammo boxes is to look at both flaps and on the inside of one of them should be the stamp code in ink. Should be a few numbers then two consecutive letters followed by two numbers or sometimes one.

An example would be the Winchester "Orange Banner" box typically purchased from Kmart or Walmart back in the 1980's

O57FK32 W

All we need is the two letters/two numbers "FK32"

Reverse this and you get 23KF, that would be the date. 23rd K=September F=1992... 23 Sept 1992

In the link below, I have added all of the data in a doc file. It can be seen here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1860800684

There you will be able to see what I already have vs what I need.

At the bottom of the chart, there are more tabs with tons more information and photos.

Enjoy!!!

[mag44uk]

Interesting thread - thanks. Been toying with getting something in 44/40

[loiner1965]

agree with above......always wanted an underlever in 44-40 cal and it as to be original win 1873......wish i had the funds lol

[mag44uk]

I really fancy another Uberti - probably an 1873 as they seem available.
I used to have a Yellowboy 1866 in 45 colt that I tried BP in.
What an absolute pain to clean after.