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Thread: The "R" word and collectable guns

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Very well put concerning the 'unbroken link to the factory'. In the end the pursuit for originality is just one of a complex set of attributes (quality, value, status, smell, feeling, emotional bond, etc.) that load towards a feeling of content or satisfaction. It commands that a particular rifle is the last you will ever sell and another that you have completely forgotten about (given a proper functioning memory ). The origins for the weight one assigns to each attribute is buried deep inside your psyche. For example I very much like proper blued metal and would never buy nickel plated guns. The origins for that lay in the moments that I was allowed as a kid to polish my grandfather's collection of deep blued vintage pistols, with all the pleasant emotions connected to it.

    Disagree on 'a car not being a wall hanger'. Watching 'Chasing classic cars' on discovery channel made me realise that there are numerous car collectors out there, that have valuable cars as 'wall hangers' in storage. Similarities with airgun collecting are eminent, but the investment/value aspect is much more prominent. As a matter of fact VGC with unrestored original parts, inscriptions, numbers, paint is a very big thing in vintage car collecting.

    The anomaly here is that restoring to factory specs provides similar values (as it seems, can't really judge the actual value gab here). Can't figure out at the moment why airgun collectors truly dislike restored to factory specs airguns (including myself). Is it because they can't, really? Slightly wrong finish, too much polishing of lettering vanishing etchings and wrong stain on the wood? Or is it because the restored object screams I'm not an original to us connoisseurs. Confusing but truly interesting stuff!
    Fair point that some (rich) car collectors have classics in storage. As someone who ran a classic car myself for decades back in the day, I wanted it to be as original as possible except when it came to modern performance and safety. So I uprated the engine, suspension, brakes etc, but you wouldn't have known that to look at it!
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  2. #32
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    REMORSE

    "A painful emotional state brought about by ones own actions"

    Usually from selling a gun that should have been kept....

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    Fair point that some (rich) car collectors have classics in storage. As someone who ran a classic car myself for decades back in the day, I wanted it to be as original as possible except when it came to modern performance and safety. So I uprated the engine, suspension, brakes etc, but you wouldn't have known that to look at it!
    Whereas I kept my classics (also back in the day) completely original, but don’t that much mind a shed find airgun that’s been refinished.

    Each to his own, I guess.

  4. #34
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    A simple question, perhaps not so easy to answer if you are a collector strongly opposed to restoration:

    If you were given a Westley Richards Highest Possible pistol, from which someone had sawn off the barrel overhang, and you were in a position to invisibly replace the missing section of barrel with a brand new, but accurately aged piece, would you carry out the repair?

    Or would you say that the sawing off of the barrel was "part of the history of the gun" and so it should be left alone?

    This is a dilemma that I actually faced several years ago, and I would be interested in people's thoughts.

  5. #35
    micky2 is offline The collector formerly known as micky
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    A simple question, perhaps not so easy to answer if you are a collector strongly opposed to restoration:

    If you were given a Westley Richards Highest Possible pistol, from which someone had sawn off the barrel overhang, and you were in a position to invisibly replace the missing section of barrel with a brand new, but accurately aged piece, would you carry out the repair?

    Or would you say that the sawing off of the barrel was "part of the history of the gun" and so it should be left alone?

    This is a dilemma that I actually faced several years ago, and I would be interested in people's thoughts.

    I would replace the barrel with a suitable aged one to put it back to how it should have been, especially if l was going to shoot it. but keep the old one with it because that is part of it's history.

  6. #36
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    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    A simple question, perhaps not so easy to answer if you are a collector strongly opposed to restoration:

    If you were given a Westley Richards Highest Possible pistol, from which someone had sawn off the barrel overhang, and you were in a position to invisibly replace the missing section of barrel with a brand new, but accurately aged piece, would you carry out the repair?

    Or would you say that the sawing off of the barrel was "part of the history of the gun" and so it should be left alone?

    This is a dilemma that I actually faced several years ago, and I would be interested in people's thoughts.
    That is a tricky one John. I suppose a lot depends on the condition of the gun. Sometimes as I quite like to see old repairs and bodges on guns, but I am not a collector, just a big kid and I enjoy plinking. If the gun were really cheap and not in great condition, I would happily plink with it with the cut down barrel. If I was more into collecting and could do the repair so you couldnt tell, then I gues that is what I would do.

    Think about some of the repairs / updates and refurbs that Webley have done over the years. Maybe the extended barrels replaced with shorter ones, gun reblued (The Juniors because of the frames going the colour that we now like). If they were done at the factory within a certain period I'd guess they were still "period".
    I've been told that will some of the longer Webley pistol barrels, that there was not a set length for them , so one might be 1/4 inch or so longer than another of a very similar age.

    If the inside of the barrel of your pistol was badly corroded and it wouldnt shoot well at all, I think that would be a good reaason to fit the other barrel if you wanted to use the gun.
    At the end of it, it is your choice. If you accept you may knock something off the value of the gun but you will have the enjoyment of being able to use it, I guess you have to decide what is worth it to you.
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  7. #37
    micky2 is offline The collector formerly known as micky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    John to that I would say yes, it is original insofar as it hasn't been tampered with, albeit neglected.

    Personally, like Chris, I want to collect airguns as close to the genuine factory condition - though aged - as possible, given my limited means. But I'm not interested in refinished guns for the reasons given above.
    l am with you there Danny on refinished guns they don't float my boat. but l would buy a refinished gun if it was a very very rare example in the hope that l might find one in original well used condition and sell the refinished one on. what does get my goat is when people call refinished guns mint.

  8. #38
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    This problem was a bit more complicated than making a complete replacement barrel (in which case you would not be doing anything permanent to the structure of the gun), as what I had in mind was more intrusive: to permanently attach the missing couple of inches of barrel to the original, with the join hidden under the front sight barrel housing.

    Would the purist regard this as making things better for the gun, or making things worse by introducing even more structural alteration?

  9. #39
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