Hard and Soft Pellets

[TonyL]

Hobby and Superdome are in the wrong list, Phil.

Yep.

And, re measuring them, Phil, a much more fun way will be to shoot and retrieve the pellets. Short range with low to medium powered guns or long range with higher powered guns will be fine. The amount of deformation will give a good idea. I've found that pellets retrieved from a pellet trap are very malleable and give a good clue as to the hardness. Not definitive, of course, but certainly gives an idea.

And you're very right, maybe Uncle Terry could entask Mr Wain to do some more measured testing?

[Phil Russell]

Good idea. I have been toying with taking a pellet, standing it on its skirt and then dropping a weight on it. Measure the deformation. Might work. Might try it tomorrow.
Cheers, Phil

[TonyL]

Excellent idea, Mr Russell.

I shall look forward to reading your observations.

[BTDT]

Good idea. I have been toying with taking a pellet, standing it on its skirt and then dropping a weight on it. Measure the deformation. Might work. Might try it tomorrow.
Cheers, Phil

The problem is the very thin and fragile JSB pellet skirts, I'm afraid, Phil. The idea is to measure the lead rather than the design.

I can't see an alternative to melting pellets down into a mould, sizing it precisely, then applying a force and measuring distortion.

[Phil Russell]

The problem is the very thin and fragile JSB pellet skirts, I'm afraid, Phil. The idea is to measure the lead rather than the design.

I can't see an alternative to melting pellets down into a mould, sizing it precisely, then applying a force and measuring distortion.

As Mainwaring would have said, 'I wondered who would spot that ...'.
You are quite right. A similar criticism applies to using a rifle (sorry TonyL) in that the rifle power / pellet velocity becomes a variable. I wonder if this factor could be reduced by, in effect, squashing the head of the pellet so bypassing the skirt effect. The extra variability introduced might be far less. But for a definitive answer:
I think I need to find some small moulds ...

Cheers, Phil
PS I have some oak strip. I wonder if that could be used ... easy to make a multiple mould.

[Steyr]

There is a guage that measures how soft lead is. I prefer softer lead.
Antimony is added to make lead harder among other things but in certain barrels it can lead to flyers as the barrel gets a skin after each shot that is then picked up by another pellet somewhere down the line. It tends to be a pedictable pattern as to when a flier appears but not always.

IIRC JSB includes antimony in their production but the % may of course be tweaked depending on various factors.

There is no need to use a phosphur bronze brush on airgun barrel. A brush like that is to deal with burnt powder residues and fouling from copper jacketed bullets. It does nothing apart from wreck probe o ring seals.

Some barrels like to be clean. Some dirty. Do a 5 to 10 shot group and keep it to compare later at a distance that begins to challenge ypur group size but alloes you to be consistant in placement. Too close and you wont see the group change. Too far and your errors disguise the real grouping potential.

Pull trough the barrel with .22 lr patches making sure NOT to touch the crown. The chordd can very easily damage the crown the most vital bit of a barrel.

Usually, a barrel might need to lead up again. This might be 40 shots or so either way. Do another 10 and see if the group has tightened or loosened it will say if the barrel likes to be clean or run in with lead.

Every 100 or 200, do another test string to see if its still tightening, staying the same or loosening again. You will work out how many shots you can get away with and how many shots you can shoot before another clean is necessary.

[StellaArtois Sr]

It's interesting reading these comments, but to be honest what difference does it really make.
I use H&N's in all my Weihrauchs as the accuracy is brilliant, and I use JSB in my R10's for the same reason.

If the rifles are grouping spot on with whatever pellet you use, then does it really matter if they are hard or soft.

Maybe I am missing something from this thread, but I really don't get what the issue really is or why it matters.
When ever I pellet test, I always put about ten through aiming at spinners or something, I then shoot two
groups of five.

I just thought the difference in the groups was the makers manufacturing rather than hard or soft lead. Am I
understanding this better now.

Ade

[TonyL]

Unless you give each pellet, especially softer ones, the opportunity to create its own leading from scratch, you'll never know whether you've found the most accurate pellet for your barrel.

It's interesting reading these comments, but to be honest what difference does it really make.
I use H&N's in all my Weihrauchs as the accuracy is brilliant, and I use JSB in my R10's for the same reason.

If the rifles are grouping spot on with whatever pellet you use, then does it really matter if they are hard or soft.

Maybe I am missing something from this thread, but I really don't get what the issue really is or why it matters.
When ever I pellet test, I always put about ten through aiming at spinners or something, I then shoot two
groups of five.

I just thought the difference in the groups was the makers manufacturing rather than hard or soft lead. Am I
understanding this better now.

Ade

As per Jim's comment, sir.

Like you, a few of my rifles seemingly prefer H&Ns, so I'll more than likely stick with them. At least for the time being.

I have FAR too many, really. A few of my "plinkers" get fed RWS Hobby. Including a very tatty looking Supersport. It may get used as a ratter one day and, as it will one-hole all day long at up to around 20 yards or so, I'll probably never look beyond the Hobby for that rifle.

[Phil Russell]

It's interesting reading these comments, but to be honest what difference does it really make.


Ade

To me I guess very little. But it stimulated curiosity as to which pellet was in which class. Musing on topics like this just keeps the little grey cells working.
Cheers, Phil

[TonyL]

There is a guage that measures how soft lead is. I prefer softer lead.
Antimony is added to make lead harder among other things but in certain barrels it can lead to flyers as the barrel gets a skin after each shot that is then picked up by another pellet somewhere down the line. It tends to be a pedictable pattern as to when a flier appears but not always.

IIRC JSB includes antimony in their production but the % may of course be tweaked depending on various factors.

There is no need to use a phosphur bronze brush on airgun barrel. A brush like that is to deal with burnt powder residues and fouling from copper jacketed bullets. It does nothing apart from wreck probe o ring seals.

Some barrels like to be clean. Some dirty. Do a 5 to 10 shot group and keep it to compare later at a distance that begins to challenge ypur group size but alloes you to be consistant in placement. Too close and you wont see the group change. Too far and your errors disguise the real grouping potential.

Pull trough the barrel with .22 lr patches making sure NOT to touch the crown. The chordd can very easily damage the crown the most vital bit of a barrel.

Usually, a barrel might need to lead up again. This might be 40 shots or so either way. Do another 10 and see if the group has tightened or loosened it will say if the barrel likes to be clean or run in with lead.

Every 100 or 200, do another test string to see if its still tightening, staying the same or loosening again. You will work out how many shots you can get away with and how many shots you can shoot before another clean is necessary.

Excellent input. Thank you.