Why is the HW95 so bouncy??

[TonyL]

Hi Topdog, can't see a force diagram, just the 3 rifles with the measurements on. Also, whats the sensor, an accelerometer? I haven't got one of them. Of course, most people's evaluation of how the 95 shoots is subjective because they don't have any measurement kit. All I know was that I have always struggled for accuracy with this gun, more than almost any other I own, but to be fair I never shot it stock, went straight to a v-mach kit.

And now it's shooting smoothly and accurately, so all's good.

To be fair, most springer shooters will judge a springer's firing cycle based on perceived feel.....and we're all different. To my mind, if it's not twanging and crashing and harsh and as long as it's accurate, me happy.

Before Jim started getting more "digital" with his measuring equipment in his fine articles, he used a pencil taped to the action of the recoiling gun (the pencil obviously able to contact with paper) to measure recoil and surge. Once you know the weight of the internals as compared to the all-up weight of the gun, much could be learned as to what was happening inside the cylinder. Not exact as what he can do now, but eye-opening nonetheless.

[Geezer]

The best thing about this thread is the idea of a shoot off between the 85/95 and the D34/36/38. Very interesting.

Ideally, add in some others, like the 80 and FWB Sport.

[TonyL]

The best thing about this thread is the idea of a shoot off between the 85/95 and the D34/36/38. Very interesting.

Ideally, add in some others, like the 80 and FWB Sport.

Ooo-er.

[maximus]

The best thing about this thread is the idea of a shoot off between the 85/95 and the D34/36/38. Very interesting.

Ideally, add in some others, like the 80 and FWB Sport.

This can be arranged as I have 177 80 and a new sport in my collection. I might do a warts and all set of 5 x 5 shot groups for each rifle and see how we go.

[TonyL]

This can be arranged as I have 177 80 and a new sport in my collection. I might do a warts and all set of 5 x 5 shot groups for each rifle and see how we go.

Ah, that'll be something to look forward to seeing.

So, when you started this thread off, did you envisage it becoming the epic classic that it has become?

[PCPShooter]

My favourite 95 combo is a v mach tuned one (which probably involves a tad of TP widening to match the shorter faster spring) coupled with a heavyish mod - EB Sirocco or PH, with a scope of 50mm AO objective as this meets my cheek position best and I feel indulged in the nice wide angle of view often afforded.......

When set up optimally a 95 in any cal is smooth and pleasant to shoot at uk power, and not jumpy

Would I like a 95 with too small a tp port and too much soft spring -nah
One with a lightweight hw mod where balance is off and barrel won't hold on target - nah

I haven't shot a new Diana 34EMS version, but the last gen 31/34 T0-6 Dianas with sorted internals are indeed just as nice as a well sorted 'stage 1' 95 imo with their tp just about right from factory as it goes

[averageplinker]

Some interesting views throughout the thread. Interesting that a lot of stock is held in the feel of a rifle; I seem to recall BTDT noting on here or in his articles in the mags that a smooth cycle is no good if the accuracy is poop (not his exact words mind )

[Geezer]

Some interesting views throughout the thread. Interesting that a lot of stock is held in the feel of a rifle; I seem to recall BTDT noting on here or in his articles in the mags that a smooth cycle is no good if the accuracy is poop (not his exact words mind )

He has indeed. And I think he’s right.

I prefer the completely dead firing cycle of a Giss gun to the FWB sledge thing. But it’s the FWBs that won the Olympics and internationals.

I quite intensely dislike the typical Theoben rammer’s firing manners. But they hit what they are aimed at, better than a lot of guns with more pleasant shot cycles (yes, I appreciate that there are a bunch of other variables at play).

I can think of other rifles that shoot well (in terms of hitting targets), but are snappy or twangy, or jumpy.

The HW77 combined high accuracy with a smooth cycle (especially compared to the quite lively FWB Sport which preceded it as FT rifle of choice).

It’s hard to underrate the influence of the HW77 35 years ago on our thinking about springers even today.

I wonder if part of the 77’s influence was to persuade us that smooth cycle = accurate, when it’s actually a lot less simple than that.

[TopDog]

Some interesting views throughout the thread. Interesting that a lot of stock is held in the feel of a rifle; I seem to recall BTDT noting on here or in his articles in the mags that a smooth cycle is no good if the accuracy is poop (not his exact words mind )

Spot on!! As a little exercise some while ago I did some recoil tests with my Test 80, light hold, firm hold, butt held firmly against cabinet (semi-rigid) and butt held firmly against wall (rigid). Will dig those out and post a collage of the results overlaid!

Action liveliness is of no real consequence as long as it, and the rifle/shooter interface, is the same every time. That, I think, is the essence of a springer and why they are so much fun to shoot! I always turn to springers for pleasure, the PCPs are for the clinical work!

atvb
David

[HW777]

And now it's shooting smoothly and accurately, so all's good.

To be fair, most springer shooters will judge a springer's firing cycle bass on perceived feel.....and we're all different. To my mind, if it's not twanging and crashing and harsh and as long as it's accurate, me happy.

Before Jim started getting more "digital" with his measuring equipment in his fine articles, he used a pencil taped to the action of the recoiling gun (the pencil obviously able to contact with paper) to measure recoil and surge. Once you know the weight of the internals as compared to the all-up weight of the gun, much could be learned as to what was happening inside the cylinder. Not exact as what he can do now, but eye-opening nonetheless.

Nowhere near as technical as the pencil method, I've always judged a springer by how far the reticle moves off target in relation to the shot cycle, contrary to what many people think, a fast action springer is better for accuracy than a soft sedate actioned rifle, if you shoot a rifle at it's designed power level this becomes self apparent.