Winter basement vintage pistol shootout - I have to choose my favorite

[45flint]

The English Webley choice was crazy difficult, could have gone either way really but the German choice was quite easy. The Tell 3 may be the holy grail of collecting but I think comes up short as a working pistol. It is probably the nicest looking design. But to shoot it you have to put you hand on top of the barrel right on the sight and push down with force to cock it. Ouch. What a horrible idea really? The front sight is rounded so you can tolerate it. That leads to the sight which are the worse sights of any pistol tested. All mine have a tendency to shoot higher than the sights can adjust for. The trigger though adjustable isn’t that great.

Bottom line I would much rather cock the Haenel for shooting these tests, it is more accurate, good sights, but a trigger that is stiff but workable. Flawless repeating mechanism.

[ptdunk]

Interesting conclusions so far, getting a balance of trigger, sights and hold.
Pistols like the Haenel 28 and Hubertus have had me throwing ‘ease of cocking’ into the mix recently.
Good to know the Tell 3 isn’t necessarily the best shooter, that’ll save me some money!

Enjoying the process, would be good if you could post some grouping pics so we can compare the accuracy of the last group? (no judging, promise)

Cheers,
Matt

[45flint]

Been spending time with the top three and it has become pretty apparent that all of these are good shooters. I said at the beginning that accuracy was only one element that I wanted to look at, but this is certainly important. Below is the last targets I shot. As you would expect each pistol has some of its own characteristics but I found each was accurate enough to enjoy as a target shooter. Ignore the one flier on the Hy-Score. That leads me to my thoughts as to which I consider the best.

The winner to me is the Webley Straight Grip Senior. Here are my thoughts:
1. As accurate a pistol as any of the three.
2. It really has a superb trigger. Not as common I guess in the slant grips?
3. Superb build quality and finish. The best of the three.
4. The most powerful of the three and not by a small amount. Just shy of 500 FPS with a 7.4 grain pellet. I had one reading just above 500.
5. The straight grip is not as ergonomic.

Second to me is the Haenel 28R:
1. Trigger is the stiffest of the three.
2. Flawless repeating mechanism for the wadcutters I used. This is just a marvel really.
3. I find the cocking no less painful than the Webley.
4. Very good build quality.
5. Maybe the best sights?
6. Lowest power 340 FPS

Last the Hy-Sore
1. Easiest to cock
2. Excellent trigger
3. Very good sight
4. Probably the best grip ergonomics.
5. Build quality not in the same class as the other pistols but certainly acceptable.

[harvey_s]

A surprising result in the end... Well done on an interesting thread

Even more surprising is the velocity obtained from the Webley - a non-standard spring perhaps?

Rifles next?...

[Geezer]

I think you’ll pick the Haenel.

I think I’d pick one of the Hy-Scores. Probably the Sportster.

So I guess I wasn’t far off in my prediction.

As Harvey says, your Senior seems abnormally nice and powerful. Webley’s claimed velocity (for many decades, with no pellet specified) was 416 fps.

A really interesting experiment and thread, thanks.

[45flint]

A surprising result in the end... Well done on an interesting thread

Even more surprising is the velocity obtained from the Webley - a non-standard spring perhaps?

Rifles next?...

I thought similar things about the Webley but there had been a long discussion on a US vintage Airgun forum by a very knowledgeable English fellow. He has tuned Webleys for many years. He said that the Straight Grip Senior Piston produces the most power. It went downhill from there? He assumed my pistol would be close to 500 FPS.

Here was part of his post:

“Finally the Seniors Phosphor Bronze piston ring.
This is very underrated because collectors assume it is of ancient design and being metal cannot be good for sealing. Wrong.
Once set up correctly, they can run beautifully with a bit of motor oil. There is zero temp sensitivity and the early versions with less mass forward of the groove could often hit 470 fps territory.
Those early Seniors, simply made the most of the internal piston chamber which is the same size for all these guns.”

[Abasmajor]

The Straight Grip Senior has always been my favourite Webley air pistol for appearance, but the Slant Grip model sits more naturally in the hand which may be why I find it slightly more accurate.

Brian

[ptdunk]

My most accurate older Webley’s are a slant grip pre-war mk 1 and a steel series E premier. Both really down to them having light crisp triggers. Still haven’t got round to zeroing my seniors, initial tests when I got them were disappointing.

Nice thread and good shooting,

Many thanks,
Matt

[45flint]

My most accurate older Webley’s are a slant grip pre-war mk 1 and a steel series E premier. Both really down to them having light crisp triggers. Still haven’t got round to zeroing my seniors, initial tests when I got them were disappointing.

Nice thread and good shooting,

Many thanks,
Matt

Interesting that the English fellow that started the Webley pistol discussion made the case that the MK 1 is the most accurate of their pistols.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA...topic=180121.0

[Abasmajor]

Topping my list of Webley air pistols is this pre-war Slant-Grip Senior.



Brian

[45flint]

Topping my list of Webley air pistols is this pre-war Slant-Grip Senior.



Brian

I’m still looking for my Stoeger Prewar Slant Grip Senior over here! Hens teeth!

I think that it’s the Walnut checkered grips with brass emblem and embossed trigger that take my straight grip over the top of the Prewar Slant. Plastic is Plastic? Once plastic appears on a gun it never goes away, usually more will arrive as the years go on.

[Abasmajor]

My German contingent of which the Haenel 28 is the clear winner, but for me anyway, not in the same class as the Webley pistols. The nearest compact, spring powered air pistol I have come across to the Webley is the Abas Major with the only discriminator being its higher purchase price when new.












Brian

[45flint]

My German contingent of which the Haenel 28 is the clear winner, but for me anyway, not in the same class as the Webley pistols. The nearest compact, spring powered air pistol I have come across to the Webley is the Abas Major with the only discriminator being its higher purchase price when new.












Brian

Over here I have handled a Abas Major once in my life it had me when I saw it was a tap loader! But $900+ was why I’m not the owner. Think if you add in the repeating mechanism of the 28R you get much closer to the Webley.

[johnbaz]

There's some fabulous pistols in the pics but have to say, I find the straight grip Webleys really uncomfortable to hold- Slant grips are the best to hold by miles and better even than most of the pistols that I have!!


John

[Dutch]

Great topic. I have to agree with the slant grip camp. Especially a later Senior (.177) and a Premier B series (.177) are my fav shooters. Plenty powerful (for closer range target shooting), easy to cock, comfy trigger (in these ones) and grip fit in the hand. This is the vintage milled steel era pistols league.

In terms of the aesthetics it is a very difficult contest. All of the pistols presented do have particular charms and elements of beauty/grand design. No clear winner here. Couple of contenders for the trophy: Haenel 28(R), prewar Senior (straight grip and slant grip), Tell 3. Its all very close.