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Thread: Webley patriot UK V Turkish build difference?

  1. #1
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    Webley patriot UK V Turkish build difference?

    Hi,
    Looking for a webley patriot, however what's the difference in finish, build quality etc between the UK & Turkish built ones?
    What's the differences I would need to look out for, also are the front sights different?
    Cheers

  2. #2
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    Webley

    The Brum ones are far better quality, build, finish and blueing I wouldn't even consider a Turkish one at all. Plus the fact you can pick up the ones to next to nothing due to the fact they are FAC. Mach 1.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by steviebee View Post
    Hi,
    Looking for a webley patriot, however what's the difference in finish, build quality etc between the UK & Turkish built ones?
    What's the differences I would need to look out for, also are the front sights different?
    Cheers
    Yes the front sight is different and the linkage at the forend is obvious, here is a picture of a patriot in a old UK mag and a picture of the Turkish one below and the last picture is a UK custom job





  4. #4
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    You can still get the Turkish one. It’s basically a Hatsan 135 dressed up (or down) to look like the original British one.

    The problem with the Patriot and similar 25-30 ft-lbs springers is that they are just too much.

    Set aside length, weight, and cocking effort.

    The fundamental problem is that they are really really hard to shoot accurately, because so much energy not used by the pellet has to be absorbed during the firing cycle by the gun and shooter, making them exceptionally hold sensitive.

    Would you rather shoot half-inch groups at thirty metres with less power, or erratic one and a half inch ones at 28 ft-lbs?

    The only practical use I can think of for them is hares at normal springer ranges (though who would shoot hares these days?) or, again at normal ranges, body shots on smaller quarry. Which is pretty niche.

    Of course, if you have a spare FAC slot, drop £100 on a British Patriot just for spits and giggles, then you can sell it on at little or no loss when you conclude that it’s a bit silly and pointless.

    The best and most useful FAC springers are the .22” HW80 and Diana 48/52, running at 18-20 for the HW and 20-22 for the Diana. But their real-world advantages (esp given the issues around use and possession of FAC items) over 12 ft-lbs isn’t that great. There’s a reason why 99% of FAC guns these days are PCP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post

    The best and most useful FAC springers are the .22” HW80 and Diana 48/52, running at 18-20 for the HW and 20-22 for the Diana. But their real-world advantages (esp given the issues around use and possession of FAC items) over 12 ft-lbs isn’t that great. There’s a reason why 99% of FAC guns these days are PCP.
    LOL you missed out my all-time favorite the 460 Magnum

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    If it is a Webley Patriot that is made in Turkey, to whom is one being patriotic to? The Airgun Nation of course.

  7. #7
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    Just out of interest, why do you want one?

    I’ve toyed with the idea of getting an English Patriot many times. I guess the justification I would tell myself would be to increase the range of the .25 out to 50 yards. I think the real reason is I have a bit of an affection for Webley’s of that generation.

    There’s a few reasons I’ve never actually done it..

    The first obvious one is it takes a slot on the FAC and space in the cabinet.

    As already touched on, they are cumbersome. I’ve handled a Patriot but never actually fired one. I have a feeling I’d regret buying it after firing the first shot.

    Yes they can be bought for nothing, but they’re also worth nothing when you’d come to part with it. They’re not desirable and I reckon you’d be really lucky if an RFD gave you as much as £50.

    So all in all I know it’s a bad idea, but I still want one anyway. I’ll probably end up learning the hard way!

    Cheers
    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    LOL you missed out my all-time favorite the 460 Magnum
    Actually I forgot it. I want to like it.

    I have no experience of it. I have seen some good reviews of the full-power version from the US, including from Tom G, who is a lot more credible than most people on the internet, including me.

    And the forward weight of the underlever must be a good thing. So you may well be right.

    But it’s still 30 ft-lbs in .22”. I’d like to see more credible evidence of its usable accuracy at that power level (and that’s in .22” - in .177”, it’s transonic or supersonic from the muzzle out, which is exactly where you do not want to be).

    I’m still not sure what actual advantage a 30 ft-lbs springer, even if accurate, gives over a 20 ft-lbs one.

    I suppose my equivalent example is that the standard rough/driven shotgun is a 12-bore. But a lot of people use a 16 (personal favourite all-around shotgun cartridge: not too much, not too little, just right) or a 20 and kill just as many birds with a lighter gun and lower recoil. You could use a 10-bore (good on you!) but would you actually take home a bigger bag?

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    PS

    Stevie,

    Sorry, we’ve derailed your thread.

    But the usual answer on here, with which I don’t disagree at all, to any variant of “should I buy a Turkish ‘Webley’?” is “no way”.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    You can still get the Turkish one. It’s basically a Hatsan 135 dressed up (or down) to look like the original British one.

    The problem with the Patriot and similar 25-30 ft-lbs springers is that they are just too much.

    Set aside length, weight, and cocking effort.

    The fundamental problem is that they are really really hard to shoot accurately, because so much energy not used by the pellet has to be absorbed during the firing cycle by the gun and shooter, making them exceptionally hold sensitive.

    Would you rather shoot half-inch groups at thirty metres with less power, or erratic one and a half inch ones at 28 ft-lbs?

    The only practical use I can think of for them is hares at normal springer ranges (though who would shoot hares these days?) or, again at normal ranges, body shots on smaller quarry. Which is pretty niche.

    Of course, if you have a spare FAC slot, drop £100 on a British Patriot just for spits and giggles, then you can sell it on at little or no loss when you conclude that it’s a bit silly and pointless.

    The best and most useful FAC springers are the .22” HW80 and Diana 48/52, running at 18-20 for the HW and 20-22 for the Diana. But their real-world advantages (esp given the issues around use and possession of FAC items) over 12 ft-lbs isn’t that great. There’s a reason why 99% of FAC guns these days are PCP.
    The AA pro elite is a better gun all round. Simular power output also

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILBA View Post
    The AA pro elite is a better gun all round. Simular power output also
    I'm lucky enough to be shooting mine at the moment, in unrestricted form. However, it's running at 22 FP, as that's where I've found it most accurate. Yes, it can go a good deal higher, but the accuracy is so much harder to acheive. At 22 it's just loverly, and very accurate.
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  12. #12
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    You have a transitional model Patriot, that looks like the UK model but is assembled in Turkey
    After that, you can easily pic the Turks out cause all info is on there in white lettering. It simply says made in Turkey as well.
    Later, they just are Hatsans and use Hatsan Quattro trigger and different front sight and holder.
    Also different breechblock/link.
    Dont believe the actionblocks and stocks are interchangable either.
    In short; its a Hatsan. If you want a Hatsan, buy a Hatsan
    If you want a Patriot, buy a uk Patriot. Lots of them about and theyre nearly for free in the uk
    ATB,
    yana

  13. #13
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    I like the look of the custom one in the pictures.
    Very smart .
    Les..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILBA View Post
    The AA pro elite is a better gun all round. Simular power output also
    I do like the PE better than the patriot but I wouldn't say it was similar power output and the Patriot was much more successful not a big flop like the PE but they are worth re-engineering

  15. #15
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    I forgot the PE, probably because of its rarity.

    Yes, it’s a very good rifle. Like an HW80, just a bit more. Without being OTT.

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