Reply With QuoteDouble regulators ?? What ever next
Your right Nick, no good to me
Always late to the party !
I was a tad bored earlier so watched a few new fandango pcp tube vids
I keep hearing about these Double regulators now being fitted especially to the FX stuff.
Crikey as if one regulator wasn’t bad enough for reliability now we have two of the blasted things
I can see the logic and in simple terms it seems to me like a stepping stone eg
Main cylinder or bottle has 250 bar First reg reduces pressure to x amount and second reg reduces further to the operating reg pressure.
Do we think this is going to become a shed tuners new type thing? Eg pcp’s that have regs retro fitted will now be having two regs fitted?
Call me curious at the minute as it’s a new one on me has anyone started to tinker with this idea?
And Dave (trumpetier) I don’t think there will be enough air cylinder volume left with a double reg in an ultra
Although you never know
Hung like a Smurf !
Double regulators ?? What ever next
Your right Nick, no good to me
LOOKING FOR A BSA ULTRA IN .177 and .25
Registered User
It's more to do with adjustable regulators. The second regulator has a finer adjustment so is easier to set it back to where you had it last.
Imo once my rifle is sighted in at my required distance and I have confirmed my hold over at other distances, I wouldn't twiddle with anything.
I suppose it's a bit like central locking. Once you have had the function, its a pain to have to use a key.
Repariere nicht, was nicht kaputtist.
I'm happy with mine
ive watched the vids on the tube about them quite interesting
Registered User
Stepping away from the Maverick, I can see the idea with a double reg, especially when you can fill your cylinders to 250 bar (eg HW100 tuning titanium stuff). Possibly the original set up wasn’t designed to run the new higher pressure, so a ‘step down’ using a new additional reg makes sense.
Having said that I took the belvilles out of mine, just back to the one reg in the tube and it’s no less or more consistent
Registered User
There used to be a double reg option on the Daystate CRX and I think the Ar20 has something along those lines - possibly as that's supplied with the walther steel cylinder which is rated to 300 bar.
I've got 5 or 6 regulated PCPs. All have single regs and are very consistent. All are .177 and set at just over 11 ft lb except for a 10m FWB. All of these guns are boring on a chrono, any possible improvement would be related to gun fit or perhaps the barrel in one case.
Best Regards
Simon
I've got some slug guns.
Always late to the party !
Interesting thoughts chaps.
I’m thinking it might be more to do with longevity of the main regulator to take away the load so to speak.
As some will know some regulators suffer creep and issues and by having help with an additional regulator that’s taking away a chunk of the load maybe this first regulator will now be the one that might suffer from the creep and issues but obviously it’s not so critical by the time the main regulator is doing its thing perhaps.
tlhIngan maH. taHja
Potentially a very good way of dealing with higher pressures.
All boils down to reliability and tuneability V's cost V's lifespan.
It means you either design it for end user to tune to taste or specialist tuners......
I think it holds a lot of promise personally. Particularly iro the higher power, larger calibre airs appearing on scene nowadays.
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To one shot one kill, you need to seek the S. Kill only comes from Skill
Six out of seven dwarfs aren't happy
I agree with the thought process of this being more suitable to the higher output side of things, take for example, the standard FX reg is capable of handling 250BAR on the HP side and between 40 to 150BAR on the LP side. so, to get a bigger shot count at a reasonable FAC level, it is feasible to have a fill pressure of 300BAR like the AGT uragan does, then have a 1st stage reg set to 150BAR, this fills a massive plenum and feeds a 2nd stage reg to say 100 bar. this then ( in certain markets or under license) could be faffed with to a finer degree and used to trim up the rifle output as desired. matched with quick change caliber kits, variable transfer porting and adjustable valve & hammer tensions could give all owners the chance to royally cock up their guns in double quick fasion.
I can see it becoming popular.I think FX have some good ideas, some...
Banned
I can’t see the point. If one works then it works. If it doesn’t then how does it help the second.
Pressure differential actually helps them work better... that is if your reg has been designed right in the first place.
Its like putting two o rings on probes or two condoms on. Do it once and do it right.
Registered User
The better Scuba diving regulators have been two stage for well over half a century, because they regulate better.
Walther CP-2 Match, FAS 604 & Tau 7 target pistols, Smith & Wesson 6" & 4" co2 pistol, Crosman 1377,
Baikal IZH 53 pistol, Gamo CFX Royal,177, Umarex SA-10 CO2 pistol.
Always late to the party !
Like I said from my opening post it’s a new one on me thanks for your input chaps.
Regulators are a funny old thing as a few have mentioned with a decent reg is there any real need for a second one
But I hear what you are saying with higher pressures and perhaps higher powers the benefit could well be needed.
I’ve not done the higher filled pcp stuff yet and even BSA Ultra/Scorpion SE’s and R10’s with 232bar fills I still usually only fill to around 200bar probably mainly my skinflint ethos although I may have read somewhere it’s better on the valving
Isn’t something like the Leishy also one of those high 300bar fills if needed and I don’t recall reading about any regulator issues with them handling such a high pressure although the huma swap route seems to be the norm for them.
This double reg route is certainly something that could well progress in my opinion especially with aftermarket higher pressure cylinders on offer as others have mentioned eg something like the HW100 where the standard reg will only handle 200bar and a different regulator is required for higher pressure etc.
Although the double reg route intrigues me, I’ve never really been that hung up on the regulator route in the first place.
Had many decent pcp’s over the years that don’t have any regulators and IMO and experience they have never needed them either eg plenty of AA S4 S5 range, Daystates with there slingshot hammer and later SE BSA’s etc.
However some earlier stuff could have certainly benefitted from a reg with the rainbow power curvesI’m looking at you mmc ultras and early rapids
But maybe in time once the tooners have become aquatinted this double reg route could be interesting.
Banned
No they’re two stage because of the volume and rate needed for your lungs at 1 bar is totally different to the volume and rate of an airgun at around 80 times that.Originally Posted by derekm
The second stage uses water pressure to change in the pressure to balance your needs as you change depth and the pressure changes and it does it on demand.
A single stage couldn’t do that. A single stage doesn’t work on demand, it works to fill a fixed volume at a fixed pressure. Hence the second stage on a dive set because lung capacity and water pressure vary.
The second stage on a dive cylinder is about 1/10th of that of an airgun before it gets lowered for your lungs. If there was some flaw with regs your logic would be there would be 3 regs.
Its not some new invention they’ve been working that way for decades just like well designed single stage regulators have been. There isn’t a problem that need solving with single stage regs on airguns.
Always late to the party !
Sorry to cut your reply Rob but this bit intrigues me.
Whilst I totally agree with you on this wouldn’t the manufacturers that are doing this double reg route disagree?
From what I gather they are trying to eliminate any creep or issues with a single reg by offering another solution to a problem that in some instances does exist.
Banned
No worries. It's all good.
There's regs out there with fundamental principle flaws before you get into the materials used.
We've had regs on test on digital calibrated gauges that show no creep even when detached from their inlet pressure (so they are holding 80+ bar without the input pressure helping the valve stay shut). It's not that they creep a small amount, they don't creep at all and can stay shut for a week in that state. They can close faster than most gauges can respond to show as well and won't trend across a charge anywhere near as much as others, if at all. The biggest variation you see on them is the effect of temperature on the air they hold.
The gauge in these videos aren't the calibrated gauges, but they're cheaper and almost as good and too be honest 0.01 bar is a bit over kill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ledzK0Sm68g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjXgIbLZwbc
You can see the 0.1 bar change on the second shot, possibly gauge rounding error, possibly temperature change. You can pick it up in your hand and see it increase with the warmth from that.
I'm not actually convinced 1 bar would be noticeable on shot, but if you can remove a variable then why not?
So perhaps they are solving something I'm not aware of, I'm open to that, but it's not creep, speed or consistency because that's been nailed. These regs were fettled, but they design is solid.
Maybe double regs are just a way of coping with mass production. But I can't see how reducing pressure differential actually helps considering it's pressure (either from inlet, spring or combination of) that holds a valve shut. If you drop the pressure differential then a valve finds it easier to open. It's like saying you can have 2 people holding a door shut against someone or 1. Which is easier to open?
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