Double PCP Regulators?

[simona]

There used to be a double reg option on the Daystate CRX and I think the Ar20 has something along those lines - possibly as that's supplied with the walther steel cylinder which is rated to 300 bar.

I've got 5 or 6 regulated PCPs. All have single regs and are very consistent. All are .177 and set at just over 11 ft lb except for a 10m FWB. All of these guns are boring on a chrono, any possible improvement would be related to gun fit or perhaps the barrel in one case.

[oldskoolzzz]

Interesting thoughts chaps.

I’m thinking it might be more to do with longevity of the main regulator to take away the load so to speak.

As some will know some regulators suffer creep and issues and by having help with an additional regulator that’s taking away a chunk of the load maybe this first regulator will now be the one that might suffer from the creep and issues but obviously it’s not so critical by the time the main regulator is doing its thing perhaps.

[Steyr]

Potentially a very good way of dealing with higher pressures.

All boils down to reliability and tuneability V's cost V's lifespan.

It means you either design it for end user to tune to taste or specialist tuners......

I think it holds a lot of promise personally. Particularly iro the higher power, larger calibre airs appearing on scene nowadays.

[premierpistol]

I agree with the thought process of this being more suitable to the higher output side of things, take for example, the standard FX reg is capable of handling 250BAR on the HP side and between 40 to 150BAR on the LP side. so, to get a bigger shot count at a reasonable FAC level, it is feasible to have a fill pressure of 300BAR like the AGT uragan does, then have a 1st stage reg set to 150BAR, this fills a massive plenum and feeds a 2nd stage reg to say 100 bar. this then ( in certain markets or under license) could be faffed with to a finer degree and used to trim up the rifle output as desired. matched with quick change caliber kits, variable transfer porting and adjustable valve & hammer tensions could give all owners the chance to royally cock up their guns in double quick fasion.

I can see it becoming popular. I think FX have some good ideas, some...

[RobF]

I can’t see the point. If one works then it works. If it doesn’t then how does it help the second.

Pressure differential actually helps them work better... that is if your reg has been designed right in the first place.

Its like putting two o rings on probes or two condoms on. Do it once and do it right.

[derekm]

The better Scuba diving regulators have been two stage for well over half a century, because they regulate better.

[RobF]

The better Scuba diving regulators have been two stage for well over half a century, because they regulate better.

No they’re two stage because of the volume and rate needed for your lungs at 1 bar is totally different to the volume and rate of an airgun at around 80 times that.

The second stage uses water pressure to change in the pressure to balance your needs as you change depth and the pressure changes and it does it on demand.

A single stage couldn’t do that. A single stage doesn’t work on demand, it works to fill a fixed volume at a fixed pressure. Hence the second stage on a dive set because lung capacity and water pressure vary.

The second stage on a dive cylinder is about 1/10th of that of an airgun before it gets lowered for your lungs. If there was some flaw with regs your logic would be there would be 3 regs.

Its not some new invention they’ve been working that way for decades just like well designed single stage regulators have been. There isn’t a problem that need solving with single stage regs on airguns.

[oldskoolzzz]

Like I said from my opening post it’s a new one on me thanks for your input chaps.

Regulators are a funny old thing as a few have mentioned with a decent reg is there any real need for a second one

But I hear what you are saying with higher pressures and perhaps higher powers the benefit could well be needed.

I’ve not done the higher filled pcp stuff yet and even BSA Ultra/Scorpion SE’s and R10’s with 232bar fills I still usually only fill to around 200bar probably mainly my skinflint ethos although I may have read somewhere it’s better on the valving

Isn’t something like the Leishy also one of those high 300bar fills if needed and I don’t recall reading about any regulator issues with them handling such a high pressure although the huma swap route seems to be the norm for them.

This double reg route is certainly something that could well progress in my opinion especially with aftermarket higher pressure cylinders on offer as others have mentioned eg something like the HW100 where the standard reg will only handle 200bar and a different regulator is required for higher pressure etc.

Although the double reg route intrigues me, I’ve never really been that hung up on the regulator route in the first place.

Had many decent pcp’s over the years that don’t have any regulators and IMO and experience they have never needed them either eg plenty of AA S4 S5 range, Daystates with there slingshot hammer and later SE BSA’s etc.

However some earlier stuff could have certainly benefitted from a reg with the rainbow power curves I’m looking at you mmc ultras and early rapids

But maybe in time once the tooners have become aquatinted this double reg route could be interesting.

[MartynB]

Interesting thread

[Rich]

Is it true that some regs let by? I believe it is.

If you have a two-reg set up and the second reg isn't designed to take the same high inlet pressure, what happens to the second reg when the first reg lets by? Surely both need to be designed for the maximum?