I'd never even seen one in the flesh so to speak until last spring, i'd gone to the range to cut the grass, & was waiting for the shooters to stand down, when a member beckoned me over to show me his, it was fac 20+ftlb i was told, he'd owned it from new, it hadn't been shot for a couple of years & he was just giving it an airing, i had a shoot & thought it was a bit rough, but maybe thats just me, but having shot fac 80's i thought them better, but thats just my opinion