Just been shooting my FAC Pro Elite...

[Shed tuner]

The breech jaw/end plug and main cylinder need to be attached somehow, generally with the cylinder being female, and breech jaws/end plug being male. The length of TP can be dependent on what joining method is used (threaded/brazed etc).
Also the longer it is, the less effect machining tolerances will have on the angle of the barrel relative to the action.
Super short TP's are only really viable for sliding comp tube actions.

Hw80 (12mm?) Is probably the shortest you could reasonably go. But maybe the pro elite designer favoured a longer port for an alignment or joining reason?

you could however use a vulcan type arrangement, where the barrel protruced back from the block, and enters a keyway in the breech face, shortening the port, whilst still allowing for a decent cylinder > tube mating depth.

You working away at the moment?

Yup

[TonyL]

Bet it's just a tad warmer down there then, Jon.

[rapidresponse1]

very nice guns

[FPoole]

Had one in both calibers. They were 22 ft. lbs. in .22 and 20 ft. lbs. in .177. I sold them to fund TX200's when I got into FT heavy. I had $600 in the 2, both brand new, and I sold them for $1250. One had no stock and was bought as action only by a stock maker. He thought he was getting a .22, but it was the .177. I had a stock, so $200 was what I paid. I also had an early Beeman R1(HW80) at the time. The HW does not compare and feels flimsy and cheap next to the PE.

[Weasle]

Had one in both calibers. They were 22 ft. lbs. in .22 and 20 ft. lbs. in .177. I sold them to fund TX200's when I got into FT heavy. I had $600 in the 2, both brand new, and I sold them for $1250. One had no stock and was bought as action only by a stock maker. He thought he was getting a .22, but it was the .177. I had a stock, so $200 was what I paid. I also had an early Beeman R1(HW80) at the time. The HW does not compare and feels flimsy and cheap next to the PE.

I totally agree with your comparison with the 80. The ProElite feels substantial and beautifully engineered, especially when closing the barrel ....however that shows in its weigh.
Mine was rebuilt By the late Steve Pope (RIP) with a reduced cylinder of 25mm with a CZ Barrel in .177 flavour. It also has a .22 Barrel with matching spring to allow it to stay below 12fpe when the caliber is changed.
Very Accurate and a pleasure to shoot and own.

Cheers Steve

[Barryg]

WHY was such a nice break barrel like the ProElite discontinued and sold of cheap in such a short time after two years development ?

I have not heard a satisfying answer, its a real mystery as the 80 is such a success

[Shed tuner]

WHY was such a nice break barrel like the ProElite discontinued and sold of cheap in such a short time after two years development ?

I have not heard a satisfying answer, its a real mystery as the 80 is such a success

whilst the 80 is definitely not optimal at 12 FP, the PE is much worse.
THe PE does generate a fair bit more power than the 80 unrestricted, but 18-20 FP from an 80 is enough for most people.
IIRC the PE cost a fair bit more than an 80 at the time ?

So I guess it comes down to not enough of a power advantage to justify the extra expense (for most) - even though the quality is better, how many customers in this market would care ? Coupled with not very good at 12 FP...

I think we sometimes forget, we relatively discerning folks on this BBS represent a tiny minority of global airgun sales.

[stillair1]

I had a very nice example running at 24ftlb, though the piston seal suctioned onto the base of the cylinder and popped off the piston at one point. Sold to Baz iirc as I needed a slot.

[Barryg]

whilst the 80 is definitely not optimal at 12 FP, the PE is much worse.
THe PE does generate a fair bit more power than the 80 unrestricted, but 18-20 FP from an 80 is enough for most people.
IIRC the PE cost a fair bit more than an 80 at the time ?

So I guess it comes down to not enough of a power advantage to justify the extra expense (for most) - even though the quality is better, how many customers in this market would care ? Coupled with not very good at 12 FP...

I think we sometimes forget, we relatively discerning folks on this BBS represent a tiny minority of global airgun sales.

I have heard that explanation before but it still don't really make sense, Diana brought out the 350 and 460 after the PE and are still going strong, why did AA not give it more time instead of dropping them so quick and selling them off cheap, at the time I thought that they had a really big design fault but now owners are saying how fantastic they are, making me kick myself for not getting one at the time
Surely it would have been better for AA to have made some adjustments rather than a dead loss

[les allam]

I ordered a service kit for my. 22 P/E, direct from Air Arms a few years after they stopped making them.
I asked the Lady on the phone why did they stop making the P/E?. She replied that they lost money on them and they were not cost effective.
They where primarily set up for export.
Les..

[Barryg]

I also had an early Beeman R1(HW80) at the time. The HW does not compare and feels flimsy and cheap next to the PE.

LOL the HW80 Flimsy, I can agree that the AA bluing looks more expansive if if that is what you mean by cheap but just trying think where the 80 is flimsy next to the PE, it cant be the end block as that would be more robust if abused by over tightening a mount, that only leaves the breech area and I'm not sure how anyone could call that flimsy
A nice custom 80 would compare with a PE but the PE already looks like a custom job and it's the only gun I still won't but only if I can find one that has not been messed with

[kennyboy]

Never seen one. Always hear good things about them. Want one, but rare so don`t think I`l ever get one. Regards Ken.

[Shed tuner]

the PE breech block and jaws are very substantial.. I don't have an 80 to hand, but I'm pretty sure the PE setup is beefier. But there's really nothing wrong with the 80 - they are not flimsy, I agree - so the PE is probably over-engineered.

[les allam]

After having a Hw80 and hw98 glided by V-Mach they also had the breech shims done as part of the conversion.A worth while upgrade.
When having the same conversion on my P/e Steve pope said it was unnecessary for a breech shim modification due to the gun being so over engineered in that area.
Les..

[Weasle]

After having a Hw80 and hw98 glided by V-Mach they also had the breech shims done as part of the conversion.A worth while upgrade.
When having the same conversion on my P/e Steve pope said it was unnecessary for a breech shim modification due to the gun being so over engineered in that area.
Les..

Hi Les
It already has substantial shims fitted....the breach, as you will know, closes like a safe door...
Cheers Steve