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Thread: Just been shooting my FAC Pro Elite...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weasle View Post
    Hi Les
    It already has substantial shims fitted....the breach, as you will know, closes like a safe door...
    Cheers Steve
    they are more like top hats - very solid, for sure...
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    they are more like top hats - very solid, for sure...
    They are indeed very solid but unfortunately also very unobtainable these days with chambers having off listed them this long time.
    I'm not an engineering type but the shim set up on these guns seems quite a well thought out set up. The whole system is very closely fitted, with (it seems to me) some space behind to put some moly lube to keep everything working well. Larger breech bolt set up than the 80 and it seems to me that the shim is allowed to rotated within its space in the breech block creating a low friction set up (unless I have that completely wrong)? Most other break barrel designs impart quite high stress and friction (and potential for wear) around the breech bolt so I think this is a clever design to try an ensure consistent lock up and longer term accuracy.
    I can well believe AA citing high production costs v slim profit margins on the gun. A great shame as the whole gun puts many other makes in the shade. Perhaps there was a limit to how much we the airgunning public are prepared to pay for a well engineered gun. They should perhaps have sold the gun from the outset at a higher mark up? Looking at the current price of the TX and PS they seem to have learned from this. And look at what the latest FWB Sport costs? Reality is that quality costs.
    I certainly wouldn't knock the HW80. It's a solid gun and I own several including a highly modified version. The sales of the gun and it's longevity speak for itself. However on an engineering angle and quality of finish the PE blows it away.
    All this talk makes me want to dig out one of mine and give it a session on the greys.
    Dave

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    they are more like top hats - very solid, for sure...
    Do those top hats hold in the barrel catch ? also how do you think that the PE's hinge setup compares with Diana's roll pin is it even better.



  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    LOL the HW80 Flimsy, I can agree that the AA bluing looks more expansive if if that is what you mean by cheap but just trying think where the 80 is flimsy next to the PE, it cant be the end block as that would be more robust if abused by over tightening a mount, that only leaves the breech area and I'm not sure how anyone could call that flimsy
    A nice custom 80 would compare with a PE but the PE already looks like a custom job and it's the only gun I still won't but only if I can find one that has not been messed with
    I always felt the 80 flexing as I popped the barrel back into the detent. Felt sort of springy, for lack of a better description. and those tiny little shims and the scoring on the breech block. The factory guide was a joke at best. The cocking link always jingled about from new and the piston stem is thinner than the AA guns. That lump of metal that screws into the receiver is the heaviest part of an HW and serves no strength purpose, but it does help the guns not feel as front heavy. The AA receiver is plenty strong enough to handle any amount of mount tightening and it's always in line from end to end unlike the HW unit which always goes a little past after the first time you open it up, easy to fix, but it still does it.. I had my 80 for 20 years or so and I liked it just fine, but the PE is a step up the quality ladder. My 80 and a $100 bill helped me get a fabulous deal on a Mark1 TX200. Now that is a gun built to last. The PE also had the same trigger unit as the TX's and it is better than the Rekord, this is fact not just my opinion and anyone who says different is simply wrong. They also don't know how to, easily and simply, adjust the CD. One thing the PE needed was the 80's open sights.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    Do those top hats hold in the barrel catch ? also how do you think that the PE's hinge setup compares with Diana's roll pin is it even better.


    They were a press fit in the breech block. I used to have several sets of spares, but I sold them on with my .177 PE. Yes, I sold my PE's but only because I don't really like break barrel guns after owning so many TX's.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FPoole View Post
    I always felt the 80 flexing as I popped the barrel back into the detent. Felt sort of springy, for lack of a better description. and those tiny little shims and the scoring on the breech block. The factory guide was a joke at best. The cocking link always jingled about from new and the piston stem is thinner than the AA guns. That lump of metal that screws into the receiver is the heaviest part of an HW and serves no strength purpose, but it does help the guns not feel as front heavy. The AA receiver is plenty strong enough to handle any amount of mount tightening and it's always in line from end to end unlike the HW unit which always goes a little past after the first time you open it up, easy to fix, but it still does it.. I had my 80 for 20 years or so and I liked it just fine, but the PE is a step up the quality ladder. My 80 and a $100 bill helped me get a fabulous deal on a Mark1 TX200. Now that is a gun built to last. The PE also had the same trigger unit as the TX's and it is better than the Rekord, this is fact not just my opinion and anyone who says different is simply wrong. They also don't know how to, easily and simply, adjust the CD. One thing the PE needed was the 80's open sights.

    I actually once owned a PE with factory open sights! Never seen another.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by FPoole View Post
    I always felt the 80 flexing as I popped the barrel back into the detent. Felt sort of springy, for lack of a better description. and those tiny little shims and the scoring on the breech block. The factory guide was a joke at best. The cocking link always jingled about from new and the piston stem is thinner than the AA guns. That lump of metal that screws into the receiver is the heaviest part of an HW and serves no strength purpose, but it does help the guns not feel as front heavy. The AA receiver is plenty strong enough to handle any amount of mount tightening and it's always in line from end to end unlike the HW unit which always goes a little past after the first time you open it up, easy to fix, but it still does it.. I had my 80 for 20 years or so and I liked it just fine, but the PE is a step up the quality ladder. My 80 and a $100 bill helped me get a fabulous deal on a Mark1 TX200. Now that is a gun built to last. The PE also had the same trigger unit as the TX's and it is better than the Rekord, this is fact not just my opinion and anyone who says different is simply wrong. They also don't know how to, easily and simply, adjust the CD. One thing the PE needed was the 80's open sights.
    This thread has got me wanting a PE

    But replying to you saying that the 80 is flimsy by comparison to the PE I can't fully agree with you there, your first point all I can say is that I have found the 80 lockup solid and reliable and if you lube and adjust the shims properly you wont get any scoring and will last a lifetime, the jingling cocking link is a simple fix




    The piston stem is a tiny bit thinner on the 80 but it is shorter





    The lump of metal on the 80 is defiantly less flimsy even though the PE is not at all flimsy







    I don't disagree that the PE is a step up the quality ladder but I won't get into the trigger debate

    All guns have faults and some PE's have had reports of cylinder problems being part of the piston seal coming off so you could say that the 80 piston is less flimsy





    I wanted to ask owners about the breech seal on the PE, does the Diana type seal hold without the sloping metal to metal breech face, as some say that the air blows out and courses a stain like in this picture, anyone else got it?


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by charub View Post
    I actually once owned a PE with factory open sights! Never seen another.
    https://www.airarmsanorak.co.uk/air-arms-pro-elite

    See the initial AGW review - open sights, but a suggestion they wouldn’t continue into full production (which they didn’t).

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by charub View Post
    I actually once owned a PE with factory open sights! Never seen another.
    Only seen them in pictures.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    https://www.airarmsanorak.co.uk/air-arms-pro-elite

    See the initial AGW review - open sights, but a suggestion they wouldn’t continue into full production (which they didn’t).
    Not sure how I came by mine then??

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by charub View Post
    Not sure how I came by mine then??
    Maybe it was a preproduction rifle Dave?
    Cheers Steve

  12. #42
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    Hi Steve, yes quite possibly.
    Admittedly, it didn’t have the sights on it when I bought it, just the witness marks of where they had been.
    The shroud had a tapped hole for the front sight and one of the arrestor pin holes was also tapped.
    I managed to chase down a set of sights from the helpful guys at the AA factory.

    Also, if you look on the chambers website, the diagram shows a model with open sights.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by charub View Post
    Hi Steve, yes quite possibly.
    Admittedly, it didn’t have the sights on it when I bought it, just the witness marks of where they had been.
    The shroud had a tapped hole for the front sight and one of the arrestor pin holes was also tapped.
    I managed to chase down a set of sights from the helpful guys at the AA factory.

    Also, if you look on the chambers website, the diagram shows a model with open sights.
    Maybe Rotherham Owl knows, but it’s a reasonable supposition that pre-production and/or early production PEs were fitted for iron sights.

    Which is odd, given that the earlier TX was always a scope-only rifle. Perhaps they thought the US market wanted irons, but then changed their mind?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    Which is odd, given that the earlier TX was always a scope-only rifle. Perhaps they thought the US market wanted irons, but then changed their mind?
    yeah, could be, or thst the heavy recoil (it's not) would be tough on scopes ?

    Also, the TX is harder to open sight, with the cylinder so much higher than the barrel shroud due to the central TP design (unlike the 77/97), so maybe that was a factor too ?
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    Maybe Rotherham Owl knows, but it’s a reasonable supposition that pre-production and/or early production PEs were fitted for iron sights.

    Which is odd, given that the earlier TX was always a scope-only rifle. Perhaps they thought the US market wanted irons, but then changed their mind?
    I've had some further info on this that I am sure you will all find interesting & have amended the Pro Elite page on my site - https://www.airarmsanorak.co.uk/air-arms-pro-elite
    Last edited by Rotherham Owl; 24-02-2021 at 09:51 AM.
    Paint chipping for Air Arms & Ireland HFT Teams.

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