Warrior Air Pistol - Possible 3rd variant

[Buck25]

My question, is there a third version of the Warrior Air Pistol.

There is presently a Warrior air pistol for sale on that site. Seeing it reminded me of some email correspondence I had with John Griffiths and Larry Hannusch a couples years ago. My pistol serial #5924 has an additional screw on the right side of the frame near the trigger. You can tighten, loosen or remove the screw yet it doesn’t appear to adjust the tension on the trigger. Upon further research I have found 3 other Warriors with this same feature. Larry has #5891, the Vintage Airgun Gallery shows #5801 that was on the bay in December-2018 and the third being #4227 which is presently for sale on the bay.

It should also be noted that these pistols have a blade type front sight and not the usual bead as found of most Warriors. As I do not have a picture of #5891, I can’t verify the type of front sight or the location of the serial number. Additionally, on #5801 & #5924 the serial number is stamped on the backstrap of the grip and #4227 is stamped on the inside of the grip.

When was this “adjustment screw” incorporated into production? John helped narrow this down when he said he had serial #4160 which did not have the screw. At that time, the lowest number with the screw was #5801 so there was still over a difference of 1,600 pieces in between. With the earliest number of 4227 showing up on the bay, this narrows it down to a range of just 65 pieces.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions.


Bay item number:154368277250
https://i.imgur.com/hjBmVCn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a1xabks.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/B9LovkM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yyOviIc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LvT4kVi.jpg

[micky2]

Interesting, l can't see that where the screw is positioned how it would alter the pull, but what it is for it has had a lot of pressure on it to damage the slot. has for the sight maybe they were done by special order, or if they were done for the US market ? being it has made in England stamped on it.

[Abasmajor]

From the pictures, the grips appear to be brown but may have just faded over the years as I've seen on some Webley Mk2 Target pistols. I was thinking maybe the screw was something to do with the introduction of a trigger stop but would have expected a pin rather than a screw to have been used to secure it.
I can't think of a logical reason for the changing the profile of the foresight unless this was specified on a very small number of pistols for some reason during production.
If it hadn't been noted on more than one example, I would certainly have thought it not to be a factory modification.

Brian

[micky2]

My question, is there a third version of the Warrior Air Pistol.

There is presently a Warrior air pistol for sale on that site. Seeing it reminded me of some email correspondence I had with John Griffiths and Larry Hannusch a couples years ago. My pistol serial #5924 has an additional screw on the right side of the frame near the trigger. You can tighten, loosen or remove the screw yet it doesn’t appear to adjust the tension on the trigger. Upon further research I have found 3 other Warriors with this same feature. Larry has #5891, the Vintage Airgun Gallery shows #5801 that was on the bay in December-2018 and the third being #4227 which is presently for sale on the bay.

It should also be noted that these pistols have a blade type front sight and not the usual bead as found of most Warriors. As I do not have a picture of #5891, I can’t verify the type of front sight or the location of the serial number. Additionally, on #5801 & #5924 the serial number is stamped on the backstrap of the grip and #4227 is stamped on the inside of the grip.

When was this “adjustment screw” incorporated into production? John helped narrow this down when he said he had serial #4160 which did not have the screw. At that time, the lowest number with the screw was #5801 so there was still over a difference of 1,600 pieces in between. With the earliest number of 4227 showing up on the bay, this narrows it down to a range of just 65 pieces.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions.


Bay item number:154368277250
https://i.imgur.com/hjBmVCn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a1xabks.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/B9LovkM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yyOviIc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LvT4kVi.jpg

Hi l have checked with the pistols that l have owned 8 in total. one of them was se/no 5830 plus 5141 and l don't remember them having the trigger screw or different foresight. which l am sure that l would have.

[Buck25]

Hi l have checked with the pistols that l have owned 8 in total. one of them was se/no 5830 plus 5141 and l don't remember them having the trigger screw or different foresight. which l am sure that l would have.

No disrespect, but I believe that everyone thinks they would have noticed the difference(s). Unless you actually look at pictures or your actual pistol, it is something that is easily overlooked.

So those individuals that have a Warrior over serial #4160 should take a second look to see if in fact there is a difference. As astute an air gun collectors are, I am surprised that this variant has not been mentioned in any Warrior article that I am aware of or it would have been noted in "The Encyclopedia of Spring Air Pistols".

[micky2]

No disrespect, but I believe that everyone thinks they would have noticed the difference(s). Unless you actually look at pictures or your actual pistol, it is something that is easily overlooked.

So those individuals that have a Warrior over serial #4160 should take a second look to see if in fact there is a difference. As astute an air gun collectors are, I am surprised that this variant has not been mentioned in any Warrior article that I am aware of or it would have been noted in "The Encyclopedia of Spring Air Pistols".

I know l would have noticed the foresight, as that is totally different to the bead sight that was fitted. as it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Buck25]

Seems the "bay" is home to the fifth known example of another Warrior with the blade front sight & adjustment screw, item number:124638462593. Per the seller, the serial number is 5945 which is stamped on the backstrap of the grip. Could not find any other examples pictured on the internet so will have to rely on collectors to come forward with other examples.

[ccdjg]

Bruce, it certainly seems like you have identified a third unknown variant. However, there may not be a simple serial number relationship for when these were produced. As you say, the earliest number known for this variant is 4227. However, John Atkins owns serial number 5547, and says that it has the normal bead sight and no screw, and he also knows of serial number, 5332, which also has the same characteristics.

Perhaps we should consider serial number 4227 to be an anomaly, perhaps an experimental prototype, and assume that the third version was not fully introduced until after serial number (at least) 5800.

It may not be coincidence that all the known examples of this third version have appeared in the USA.

I wonder if the redundant screw was the result of an abandoned attempt to introduce a safety catch? If a batch of frames had been drilled ready for the safety catch, and then the safety catch idea had been abandoned, the screws could have been a quick means of filling an unsightly hole.

[micky2]

Bruce, it certainly seems like you have identified a third unknown variant. However, there may not be a simple serial number relationship for when these were produced. As you say, the earliest number known for this variant is 4227. However, John Atkins owns serial number 5547, and says that it has the normal bead sight and no screw, and he also knows of serial number, 5332, which also has the same characteristics.

Perhaps we should consider serial number 4227 to be an anomaly, perhaps an experimental prototype, and assume that the third version was not fully introduced until after serial number (at least) 5800.

It may not be coincidence that all the known examples of this third version have appeared in the USA.

I wonder if the redundant screw was the result of an abandoned attempt to introduce a safety catch? If a batch of frames had been drilled ready for the safety catch, and then the safety catch idea had been abandoned, the screws could have been a quick means of filling an unsightly hole.

Hi John, l would go along with the theory of the safety catch, as that would make sense. as for the fore sight. my theory is maybe who ever the retailer was exchanged the sights as a better sales feature. but a very interesting thread all the same.

[Buck25]

Bruce, it certainly seems like you have identified a third unknown variant. However, there may not be a simple serial number relationship for when these were produced. As you say, the earliest number known for this variant is 4227. However, John Atkins owns serial number 5547, and says that it has the normal bead sight and no screw, and he also knows of serial number, 5332, which also has the same characteristics.

Perhaps we should consider serial number 4227 to be an anomaly, perhaps an experimental prototype, and assume that the third version was not fully introduced until after serial number (at least) 5800.

It may not be coincidence that all the known examples of this third version have appeared in the USA.

I wonder if the redundant screw was the result of an abandoned attempt to introduce a safety catch? If a batch of frames had been drilled ready for the safety catch, and then the safety catch idea had been abandoned, the screws could have been a quick means of filling an unsightly hole.

John insightful as always. A very intriguing concept that is very plausible. You also noted that all the examples have appeared on this side of the pond. There is still so much to learn and this Forum is such a great way for everyone to communicate their opinions and ideas. Many thanks for your input.

[lodmoor]

I have serial number 4037 - no screw and a 'bead' foresight.

As a matter of interest 154368277250, is that fleabay? Only a, I thought they did not take airguns and b, I am getting not known.

[Garvin]

I have serial number 4037 - no screw and a 'bead' foresight.

As a matter of interest 154368277250, is that fleabay? Only a, I thought they did not take airguns and b, I am getting not known.

They do in the US. You have to go to the dot com version.

[Garvin]

It occurred to me that could this blade front sight be a US-only thing that was requested by the US importer, perhaps because it was more robust and resistant to damage during transit than the usual bead?