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Thread: Germans and their balls

  1. #1
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    Germans and their balls

    What with haenels, vzs, and lately a .177 Giffard I have become a little more obsessed with balls than is heathy. Specifically German balls.

    Why are there so many lead balls available in Germany, in such a range of fractionally different sizes? I’ve used number 9 (4.4) for haenels etc for some time, I have some number 10 (4.46) for vzs, but have recently discovered everything from number 7 (4.3) to number 12 (4.61). What are they doing with all these? I know they like their gallery guns but why all the different sized ammo?
    Morally flawed

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Cornelius View Post
    What with haenels, vzs, and lately a .177 Giffard I have become a little more obsessed with balls than is heathy. Specifically German balls.

    Why are there so many lead balls available in Germany, in such a range of fractionally different sizes? I’ve used number 9 (4.4) for haenels etc for some time, I have some number 10 (4.46) for vzs, but have recently discovered everything from number 7 (4.3) to number 12 (4.61). What are they doing with all these? I know they like their gallery guns but why all the different sized ammo?
    To make it worse the VZ-35 was actually 4.45. The later VZ-47 was 4.46.

  3. #3
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    No idea

    I use pellets in my Giffard

    Just tip them in with a cocktail stick or similar

  4. #4
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    I seem to remember there being a song about that.......
    "But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed."
    Winston Churchill 1930

  5. #5
    edbear2 Guest
    Because they are efficient ond organised by nature I suppose......some could say to a fault......

    Anyway, the makers obviously thought it would be good to have all the options covered, by demand or another reason, maybe so shooters could experiment and find the exact size their guns preferred.

    I can't believe there were than many miniscule variations of bore size by the makers, I think it was as above (personally, probably wrong though! )

    ATB, Ed

  6. #6
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    Maybe Czechoslovakia didn’t like the Germans for some reason? Sad part is H&N used to make quality balls in all the sizes, no more. Bought a lifetime supply of their 4.45 from a dealer in Canada with old stock. These small difference do make a difference in accuracy, so little of the ball engages the rifling? Most all the balls on the market now are not that consistent. The right size ball in my Z35 shows it is very accurate.
    Last edited by 45flint; 01-03-2021 at 11:18 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Gen View Post
    I seem to remember there being a song about that.......
    I always felt sorry for Goebbels --- bereft in the ball department.

  8. #8
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    Given the popularity of "nominal 4mm" Zimmerstutzens from a tremendous variety of low-volume makers in the late 1800's, I've assumed that bore size and rifling varied enough that precision shooting required the ideal size to fit a particular gun. Those Bürger were serious about their accuracy.

    Don R.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    I always felt sorry for Goebbels --- bereft in the ball department.
    Propaganda on the Reich Minister of Propaganda. How apt

  10. #10
    edbear2 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by slow_runner View Post
    Propaganda on the Reich Minister of Propaganda. How apt
    All explained in this documentary;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNa1RYgV17o

    ATB, ED

  11. #11
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    A modern plastic "tin" of RWS 4mm flobert Cartridges describes them as "4mm lang mit kugel nr. 7"
    So maybe the number seven balls are for something as obscure as flobert reloading???

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by draitzer View Post
    Given the popularity of "nominal 4mm" Zimmerstutzens from a tremendous variety of low-volume makers in the late 1800's, I've assumed that bore size and rifling varied enough that precision shooting required the ideal size to fit a particular gun. Those Bürger were serious about their accuracy.

    Don R.
    That's about the size of it !

  13. #13
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    It turns out there was an interesting answer to this and a specific sort of German shooting, a bit like our bell target I guess:

    https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerstutzen

    (In German but you can translate in safari at least, though you do get some comic results, eg apparently the shooting is called “room nozzle”, which I guess sounds better in German)

    Some shooters therefore use (sometimes mysterious) means to anoint the balls to improve shooting precision; oiling the balls before shooting is commonplace
    I have not tried this myself but will certainly now consider anointing my balls before shooting to see if it improves my performance
    Morally flawed

  14. #14
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    Never helped my shooting much

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingernut View Post
    Never helped my shooting much
    I think you need to use Präzisionsschießballöl
    Morally flawed

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