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Thread: Mainspring steels

  1. #1
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    Mainspring steels

    Having been educated by Jim in the science of mainsprings and spring rates etc I am still puzzling over what difference the various steels used to make springs can have.
    I also have a vague memory of it being possible to calculate spring rate from the spring dimensions, albeit maybe only an approximation ... but maybe memory is fading.
    But... to the original question: What steels are used to make springs and what are the differences between them? Which is best ? Is one steel inherently 'softer' than another? Is one likely to last longer?
    I am also pretty sure I have heard the term 'Swedish steel' but always thought that is marketing hype similar to 'Jersey Potatoes' or 'Lincolnshire Potatoes' which just mean 'grown in wherever'.

    Just Lockdown musings.
    Cheers, Phil

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    I asked the very same thing years ago, Phil, and I'm sure this will be a regularly recurring subject amongst springer fans.
    Can't remember the / any definitive outcome, but my quest had me looking up much information on-line surrounding music wire and valve spring wire. Interesting way of spending a few hours researching.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    I asked the very same thing years ago, Phil, and I'm sure this will be a regularly recurring subject amongst springer fans.
    Can't remember the / any definitive outcome, but my quest had me looking up much information on-line surrounding music wire and valve spring wire. Interesting way of spending a few hours researching.
    Is this a case of 'great minds think alike' or 'fools seldom differ'? Sorry Tony, couldn't resist. I like to think the former.. But it is a question I have often thought about. I could, like you, spend time googling but thought there may be some expert on here who would say 'Ah, yes, good question. The answer is '.

    And I admit it was brought back to mind by reflecting on an experience a couple of years ago with an LGU (.177) which was making about 11.2 on receipt but over maybe 3 months of intermittent use lost maybe 2 ft lb. A new spring sorted it. But I have heard of others who found the same with LGU springs ... weakening over time.

    Cheers, Phil

  4. #4
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    Seem to remember Umarex / Walther citing music wire, Phil.

    And I could be wrong, but were the weakening springs put down to not being scragged?
    THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    Seem to remember Umarex / Walther citing music wire, Phil.

    And I could be wrong, but were the weakening springs put down to not being scragged?
    With the LGU I seem to recall the springs weakening was put down to a smaller than optimum transfer port for 12ftlbs by some and it was claimed to have cured it by opening out the TP at touch.
    Rich
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by averageplinker View Post
    With the LGU I seem to recall the springs weakening was put down to a smaller than optimum transfer port for 12ftlbs by some and it was claimed to have cured it by opening out the TP at touch.
    Rich
    Not in my case. I had opened the tp out to 3.2mm (I think that was the recommended size) on receipt. My notes are below:

    Started at c. 10.4 with AA Field, some stock resonance / twang. Transfer port at 2.6 (?) so drilled out to 3.2mm. Added a delrin slip washer to spring guide. Then at c. 11.8/11.9, twang still present. Stripped again, found 2 steel washers in piston under top hat. Removed. Tried a 0.5mm PTFE piston liner but just too thick so used a steel one. Replaced only one of the steel washers. Left the delrin slip washer. Lubed with moly grease on spring. Now 11.8 consistent (c. 795fps) with twang gone.
    Feb 2016 tested: power dropped to c. 10.5, approx. 750 fps. Fitted new spring and removed slip washer. Now c 11.2.

    Cheers, Phil

  7. #7
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    Thanks Phil. It looks like the spring is to blame then. I had best keep an eye on my LGV as I suspect they use the same spring!
    Rich.
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  8. #8
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    was there a spring maker on here ? POK i think.

    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-s-mainsprings!

  9. #9
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    Steel is steel but not all steels are equal. For a particular set of spring dimensions, the properties of the spring will be the same as long as the spring does not yield, fatigue, snap or otherwise break.
    Springs are made of spring steels that are designed to not break at extremes. If you made one out of mild steel it would behave the same until the metal took on a permanent set and kept a partially compressed shape. You can compress a spring steel spring further before it does this because they contain alloying elements.

    Buy decent springs- they are cheap for what they are.

  10. #10
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    Re: LGV. I found no spring issues with my .177 Competition Ultra.

    'Steel is steel but not all steels are equal'. Quite. But what are the different steels? Do they have specification codes? Clearly the steel used for manufacturer A may be different from steel used by manufacturer B even if they both come under the general heading of 'spring steel'.
    For instance I believe some are described as 'chrome' steel. Now while I can appreciate that the term 'chrome steel' could also be a generic description with the 'chrome' content being different between different manufacturers, how are the steels designated and which are best?

    Cheers, Phil

  11. #11
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    There are thousands of steels, each with their own specification and designation. Modern steels from good suppliers are very closely controlled.

  12. #12
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    It’s a good question and I don’t know the answer.

    This was interesting:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_steel

    Whether that applies to airgun mainsprings, I don’t know. But it may. Of the ones I know in the list, they are widely available, easily worked and inexpensive, which is what I’d want if I was an airgun manufacturer.

    1095 and 5160 are, among other uses, good, traditional, knife steels, and 1070, 1075 and 1080 are often used in machetes and axes. In all cases because they can take a good edge (when properly heat-treated), but are flexible rather than brittle, which is usually the case with harder, more wear-resistant steels.

    My impression is that “Swedish steel” means about as much as “Swiss watch”, the latter ranging from a generic quartz movement to a Patek Philippe. The Swedes do make some of the finest steel in the world, but they also make a lot of more ordinary stuff.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Russell View Post
    Having been educated by Jim in the science of mainsprings and spring rates etc I am still puzzling over what difference the various steels used to make springs can have.
    I also have a vague memory of it being possible to calculate spring rate from the spring dimensions, albeit maybe only an approximation ... but maybe memory is fading.
    But... to the original question: What steels are used to make springs and what are the differences between them? Which is best ? Is one steel inherently 'softer' than another? Is one likely to last longer?
    I am also pretty sure I have heard the term 'Swedish steel' but always thought that is marketing hype similar to 'Jersey Potatoes' or 'Lincolnshire Potatoes' which just mean 'grown in wherever'.

    Just Lockdown musings.
    Cheers, Phil
    Swedish steel was in the advertising for the Airforce springs IIRC.

  14. #14
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    Well ... this has been interesting. A quick google and Wiki shows me that there are lots of different steels, as Blackbeard says. I guess I expected this, indeed if you google a bit further you can find descriptions of the various grades of spring steel complete with all sorts of data regarding their properties.
    But ... there is always a but.... I wonder if we will ever be told which particular steel a particular spring is made from? I did come across a site where you could indeed design your own spring from a particular steel spec/code.
    Cheers, Phil

  15. #15
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    The only way to identify the steel would be to stick it into a test device that measures the % of alloying element content and then look up the nearest specification. This is standard metallurgy test gear but a bit too expensive for the home airgunsmith.

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