Set back triggers

[charub]

Never had one, never felt the need. I was just wondering what all the fuss is about.
I have shot all manner of rifles over the years, I have small hands but reach is not a problem for me. I tend not to grip the pistol grip as I find this is another point of inconsistency that I can eliminate. Instead, I basically hang my trigger hand by thumb around the area above the pistol grip (thumb forwards if stock allows) and my trigger finger on the trigger - that’s it, no other point of contact with trigger hand.

It sounds unorthodox, but I would be interested to hear how others get on trying it. Go on, humour me - 50 shots keeping everything else the same as you would usually shoot.

In the meantime, I may order a set back trigger, see how I get on.

[cooper_dan]

Never had one, never felt the need. I was just wondering what all the fuss is about.
I have shot all manner of rifles over the years, I have small hands but reach is not a problem for me. I tend not to grip the pistol grip as I find this is another point of inconsistency that I can eliminate. Instead, I basically hang my trigger hand by thumb around the area above the pistol grip (thumb forwards if stock allows) and my trigger finger on the trigger - that’s it, no other point of contact with trigger hand.

It sounds unorthodox, but I would be interested to hear how others get on trying it. Go on, humour me - 50 shots keeping everything else the same as you would usually shoot.

In the meantime, I may order a set back trigger, see how I get on.

My HFT stock was designed to help achieve essentially the same thing, you aren't the only one
I have thumb like you describe, but allow my palm to rest on the stock (as flat/neutral as possible) without gripping it. I tried it without the palm touching at all (like you describe) but had some trouble with downward pointing HFT shots.

[Shed tuner]

the position you describe is generally known as thumb up, and has been used for decades to get an inline squeeze on the trigger, rather than a twist. Many (aftermarket/hi end) stocks have cutouts to facilitate a compy thumb up position, especially thumbholes, ironically. The amount of contact with the palm of the hand is normally a little more than the zero you describe, but it's very low forces involved.

Here's an example:



and a factory stock with a thumb up poistion groove:

[cooper_dan]

Not sure about those examples. 'thumb forward' is very different to 'thumb up'. I don't think the traditional thumb up you could 'hang' the hand from the thumb like charub is describing.
Also that first example has got finger grooves round the grip. Having finger grooves generally means your hand is on the stock and fingers wrapped round it, which will always be imparting some force. (Although I accept you don't have to).
It's nit picky things but I'm a big believer that even the smallest tweaks to hand placement on a springer will be a big difference to consistency.

[Shed tuner]

Ahh, maybe I misunderstood.

BTW Dan, I started this hold sensitivity test thread a while back... may be of interest:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....tivity-testing

I found the excessively limp hold actually the worst then, but that doesn;t mean it'll be the case with all shooters, and all guns, or even any except for me and mine !

[cooper_dan]

For me (I guess that's the important bit!) and my experiences with HFT. Thumb up works very well on the straight and level (I.e practicing, zero ranges, some courses). But on angled shots can cause a bit of vertical wandering. The best explanation I had was from the main man Jim who described the thumb as basically acting like a spring which will absorb some of the recoil, then push it back into the stock. Possibly the different angles means that 'thumb spring' is acting in a different way?
The idea behind 'thumb forward' is that the thumb is to the side of the action, so the stock will slide past, essentially removing the 'thumb spring' from the equation.

The main issue is that every individual person, stock fit, rifle tune/characteristics, shooting discipline, conditions etc will probably require different hand placements to really get the best out of them. I've known people with standard 30mm thumping pistons hit everything they looked at, and other people with fancy 22mm or less tunes and target stocks not be able to hit the side of a barn.

For me, shooting a springer consistently well boils down to 4 main things. Stock fit, hand placement, trigger control and fitness/conditioning of the shooter. Find someone with all that and they'll win with anything regardless of rifle or tune.
I've by no means mastered it yet, but maybe next year

[charub]

All to wordy for me. Just try it - if it works for you that’s great, if it doesn’t, you then know not to bother again.
My original post was actually to demonstrate that set back triggers may not be required.
I couldn’t even begin to remember the amount of top end FT rigs / stocks I have had over the years, so am fully aware of different stock designs.

[Scott.]

I put an extra setback Rowan trigger on my HW77 as I was stretching to reach the trigger, with the setback trigger my finger was far more relaxed and curved so it allowed me a more comfortable position and a soft squeeze to fire it off.

Thumb position I use both,
Im just as good or as bad with both and have come to the conclusion it really doesn't matter to me so I will shoot in whatever position my thumb goes to at the line and not force it onto one or the other

This is my most common hold, especially when Im standing which is for 99% of the shots I take

[Shed tuner]

yeah, I've seen and tried second finger on the trigger... works well rested, but is really handy when the trigger is heavy, as it means the pull is just straight back, no twist...

[TonyL]

I seem to remember trying the middle finger many years ago (for shooting, chaos, fnar, fnar!) but can't remember the outcome.. Must give it a go again sometime.

[TonyL]

For me (I guess that's the important bit!) and my experiences with HFT. Thumb up works very well on the straight and level (I.e practicing, zero ranges, some courses). But on angled shots can cause a bit of vertical wandering. The best explanation I had was from the main man Jim who described the thumb as basically acting like a spring which will absorb some of the recoil, then push it back into the stock. Possibly the different angles means that 'thumb spring' is acting in a different way?
The idea behind 'thumb forward' is that the thumb is to the side of the action, so the stock will slide past, essentially removing the 'thumb spring' from the equation.

The main issue is that every individual person, stock fit, rifle tune/characteristics, shooting discipline, conditions etc will probably require different hand placements to really get the best out of them. I've known people with standard 30mm thumping pistons hit everything they looked at, and other people with fancy 22mm or less tunes and target stocks not be able to hit the side of a barn.

For me, shooting a springer consistently well boils down to 4 main things. Stock fit, hand placement, trigger control and fitness/conditioning of the shooter. Find someone with all that and they'll win with anything regardless of rifle or tune.
I've by no means mastered it yet, but maybe next year

Yes and I think I have a vague recollection of Jim describing the "thumb spring" in one of his super articles a good while ago. Depending on the stock / position I use both "orthodox" positions and try to concentrate on my thumb having (hopefully) no influence on the recoil dynamics. Tieing in with conditions, Dan, obviously clothing is a huge factor too and, as much as we'd like to promote consistency by wearing the same clothing in all conditions, I guess most of us not competing for silverware will compromise our shooting efficiency by "dressing to" the conditions?

[Scott.]

Aye my middle finger is well out of practice too Tony

I used to have a Hatsan 60sc (or the poor mans hw80 for all you gun snobs ) it was a bloody great gun and one day I overheard one of the old lads at the range commenting that he hadn't seen anybody use that finger on the trigger for years.
After I realised he was talking about me I noticed that I had unconsciously switched fingers for a better feel (he he he )
so paying more attention to what I was doing and experimenting by forcing the use of the traditional trigger finger I found that my index finger was too strong and not as smooth and precise (if that makes sense) whereas the middle finger moved better with more feedback and I must have done this without even thinking about it.

Same with my thumb, some shots it will be up, some it will be over but I don't over think it I just let my body decide what's best for that shot
let's face it Im never going to win medals because I just enjoy sending the lead at the tin chickens and bantering with old and new friends.

[TonyL]

Cheers for that, Scott.

I will revisit the middle finger trigger technique at a testing sesh in the not too distant future and see how I get on.. I often cringe in fear of losing my index finger. You use it a lot, don't you? I often cut it / make it sore polishing and cleaning things, for example. And you dread if anything were to happen to it. But threads like this make you realise that, although it would never be a good thing, it's insurmountable.

[Scott.]

Cheers for that, Scott.

I will revisit the middle finger trigger technique at a testing sesh in the not too distant future and see how I get on.. I often cringe in fear of losing my index finger. You use it a lot, don't you? I often cut it / make it sore polishing and cleaning things, for example. And you dread if anything were to happen to it. But threads like this make you realise that, although it would never be a good thing, it's insurmountable.

It’s funny you should mention it like that Tony, without getting too deep into it last month was the 25th anniversary of an industrial accident that instantly blinded me and a week later resulted in the removal of my left eye.
I can promise you that do get over such things and your body will ultimately find other ways to do the things it really needs to do in its own way.
Don’t forget that the middle finger technique might not work for you because there may not be any real reason for your body to make it work for you... but as with all things YMMV

[TonyL]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your eye, Scott.