trouble in store?

[cinedux]

There seems to be a concerted on-line effort to demonstrate how a toy gun (softair/CO2/air) can be altered to fire live ammo. Despite warnings that such alterations are illegal and dangerous such commentaries seem qualified by the suggestion they(the commentaries) are of 'academic value 'only-really? I see such items as fodder for the gun-restricting lobby.I really wish the likes of Asian/Russian airgun makers would quit making lovely replicas for our now very restricted markets.I don't want my CO2 repeaters converted.Some are dead spitting image of course.I can see them becoming forbidden imports.Likewise I see CO2 pistols made in the clam-shell style as being recognised as CO2 guns that can be shot indoors or in the back yard if no other person is alarmed of frightened.Afraid the fate of the dead-ringer handgun blanks and all,is determined. Afraid cracker replicas from Taiwan and the Phillipines probably ought to become verboten. Stickwith the airgun makers of yesteryear and ask them to come up with some sporting rather than military lines.Trev

[Mark D]

Got a link Trev ?

Can't see anything new on this matter after a quick Goggle search

[Josie & John]

I like military style airguns and close replicas such as the Baikal Makarov.

The shooting public have many enemies outside of the sport and pandering to them by calling for restrictions on some guns on the grounds that they may not be to one's taste is not going to stop our enemies from banning target or any other 'sporting' looking airguns.

We all need to stick together and fight every restriction that is proposed as one day, we may find there is no sport left at all.

John M

[micky2]

I doubt if many of the general public could tell the difference. l think to them a gun is a gun and that's it.

[slow_runner]

I doubt if many of the general public could tell the difference. l think to them a gun is a gun and that's it.

The general public are thick, misinformed, fearful, compliant sheep; ever ready to be led by the nose.
How can the enemies of this sport can not succeed?

[Abasmajor]

I and many others suffered unnecessarily because of the 1997 UK ban on the ownership of breech loading handguns. One of the biggest disappointments for me was the disunity shown among our national shooting organisations each concentrating on their own interests rather than defending the sport in general.
I remember organising petitions, badgering my MP and attending protests etc all to no avail. At least I had the consolation of knowing that I had done all I could to make our voice heard despite the odds being stacked so heavily against us.

What we really need is a united front from a national multi-discipline organisation supporting shooting sports and not different branches of the sport as we have in the UK at present. We could never achieve the influence that NRA command in the USA, but we must learn that the next time the bell tolls it might be for you.

Brian

[edbear2]

I doubt if many of the general public could tell the difference. l think to them a gun is a gun and that's it.

Pretty much... in one of our bell league pubs they have a restaurant area, and the look of horror sometimes on peoples faces as 25+ shooters and reserves wandered in with a variety of slips and cases was a sight. Sometimes one or two would come and have a peek and be O.K. when we showed them, even having a go on occasion,.... on other occasions at the bar I would explain to one of them they were just air rifles etc., and be met with real hostility and "It is a GUN!.....Why does ANYONE need a gun!!!........How are you allowed to walk around with GUNS!!!

The latter being rare as is a rural league so were probably townies

I can only imagine their reaction if they saw some of the .22lr Assault or SMG clones out there, a guy I know has an MP5 with a holo sight on....to him it's just a fun plinker and to any shooter it is just a dressed up rimmy, but the trouble is there are more anti's than pros, they tend to be more vocal and the types to get in touch with their M.P.s or the like.

It's probably a good thing the are clueless about practical S/G and the like too, I can just imagine the headlines.

This is not a critique in any way of any shooting discipline or style of gun, but people who shoot honestly have no idea of the horror and disgust some people would display if they even saw a Gat

After the lever and assist ban a guy sent me a link to a youtube video called "Southern Gun Company .308 Lever Release Rifle" where the guy says "check this out" and rattles a few off. The guy said "do you think stuff like this helps" as he is a traditional stalker and hates any "black gun".

So as Muskett says....we are divided as well I suppose

Anyhow...times past;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/312284...otolist-GFCnTs

ATB, ED

[Garvin]

I like military style airguns and close replicas such as the Baikal Makarov.

The shooting public have many enemies outside of the sport and pandering to them by calling for restrictions on some guns on the grounds that they may not be to one's taste is not going to stop our enemies from banning target or any other 'sporting' looking airguns.

We all need to stick together and fight every restriction that is proposed as one day, we may find there is no sport left at all.

John M

I respect your right to enjoy military-style replica airguns peacefully, John, and will argue as forcefully as I can for you to be able to continue to do so unmolested!

But a part of me wonders whether your predeliction isn't going to invite unwanted hostile attention, as Trev is observing it might (not calling for).

I'm also not sure what guns designed for battle have to do with airguns designed to drop small game or put holes in targets?

You're probably right in saying your enemies and mine are the same, but I think it's easier to make the case that my chosen hobby has less potential to be hijacked by evil people among us.

[evert]

I respect your right to enjoy military-style replica airguns peacefully, John, and will argue as forcefully as I can for you to be able to continue to do so unmolested!

But a part of me wonders whether your predeliction isn't going to invite unwanted hostile attention, as Trev is observing it might (not calling for).

I'm also not sure what guns designed for battle have to do with airguns designed to drop small game or put holes in targets?

You're probably right in saying your enemies and mine are the same, but I think it's easier to make the case that my chosen hobby has less potential to be hijacked by evil people among us.

That attitude has a tendency to backfire. They are not coming for YOUR guns- TODAY- as someone else is at the front of "evil".
But when the military replicas are gone, the "antis" are coming for the next item....

[Garvin]

That attitude has a tendency to backfire. They are not coming for YOUR guns- TODAY- as someone else is at the front of "evil".
But when the military replicas are gone, the "antis" are coming for the next item....

Yes, but when they do, it'll be easier to argue they are barking up the wrong tree.

[Josie & John]

That attitude has a tendency to backfire. They are not coming for YOUR guns- TODAY- as someone else is at the front of "evil".
But when the military replicas are gone, the "antis" are coming for the next item....

I agree. This is what I was alluding to in my initial response to this thread.

Our enemies will attack each element in turn until there is nothing left. Just look at what we have lost since 1987: Self loading rifles, pistols, Brocock air pistols, mail order airguns.....It's the death of 1000 cuts, one by one.

Our enemies will ban gun shaped toys if that is all that is left at the end of the day, whether they resemble military or sporting arms is a moot point.

Better to fight restrictions at every corner by contacting your local MP or ministers direct. Ironically one of the most detailed responses I ever received was a letter from Charles Kennedy. Other ministers sent a templated acknowledgement but old Charles sent a 4 page reply, so at least he listened to every point I raised.

I was also one of a deputation of around 6 that contacted our local MP just after Dunblane at a time when he did not know which way to vote. Again, he listened and took our side. He also contacted me some years later asking for advice on which air rifle to buy for a spot of pest control!

My point is contacting these people can work and is not pointless. They are human and react to sensible argument. Just don't swear, however much you may want to and keep your cool.

John.

John

[Powderfinger]

I like military style airguns and close replicas such as the Baikal Makarov.

The shooting public have many enemies outside of the sport and pandering to them by calling for restrictions on some guns on the grounds that they may not be to one's taste is not going to stop our enemies from banning target or any other 'sporting' looking airguns.

We all need to stick together and fight every restriction that is proposed as one day, we may find there is no sport left at all.

John M

Well said. And I question whether there is a clamour from the public to ban anything. The call for bans comes from small but noisy lobby groups manipulating a media that seeks senstion and loves to stir up aggro which has led to bans in the past.

[Abasmajor]

Most of the people I encounter at my club range, shooting meetings and arms fairs etc must be in their mid-sixties. Our generation grew up in a time when we were allowed access to air guns without the stigma associated with today's attitudes. This usually resulted in a progression to live forearms always under controlled conditions of course, but without the severe restrictions imposed these days. Today's youngsters are probably more interested in computer games than airguns and certainly don't have the ready access we enjoyed to try things. Despite several initiatives to encourage young shooters at my club, there hasn't been too much interest and when the hurdles involved with the possession of live firearms are explained, the interest usually fades altogether.

Without an injection of youth into the sport, it can only be a matter of time before shooting will be confined to necessary vermin control etc and sporting shooting may well become a thing of the past.

This may seem over pessimistic, and I will certainly continue to promote shooting in all its diverse forms, but I can't see the resurgence that would be needed to guarantee its future coming any time soon.

Brian

[Mark D]

I'm in the mid 60s age group and was an active member of a full bore pistol club from the age of 20 that shot at events around the country and in France plus the trip to Pistol AD at Bisley. Bisley was always rammed with people from all over the planet over those 4 days and the stalls did heaps of business.

Post 97 I couldn't bring myself to shoot was was on offer and took up with my airguns. My old club set up an airgun section, but it was set up outside which meant it was redundant for 6 months of the year. HFT and IPAS grabbed my attention and it was pleasing to see how many youngsters and females joined the sport, even if it meant being beaten by someone half your age!!

I am hopeful that competitive shooting in all forms will continue across the generations and into the future, what it really needs though is an umbrella organisation that will represent all shooters whatever their chosen discipline, that though is going to be it's toughest hurdle.

[Hsing-ee]

There seems to be a concerted on-line effort to demonstrate how a toy gun (softair/CO2/air) can be altered to fire live ammo. Despite warnings that such alterations are illegal and dangerous such commentaries seem qualified by the suggestion they(the commentaries) are of 'academic value 'only-really? I see such items as fodder for the gun-restricting lobby.

It is simply not possible to convert an airsoft or a CO2 gun to fire live ammo. The idea is ridiculous. The Home Office people would have known this when they removed the requirement for a sub-6 fpe carbon dioxide pistol to be on ticket.

Blank-firers can be converted to a very basic kind of firearm with a very short range, and an improvised shotgun can be made from a couple of lengths of sturdy pipe. Certain types of spring air-rifle can be converted to .22 rimfire, and most PCPs can be pushed well over the 12 fpe limit relatively easily.

The Brocock and Saxby-Palmer revolvers and derringers, adapted as they were from real centrefire weapons COULD be converted to fire live ammo, with a great deal of engineering skill, and they were banned.

I don't think you should be over-concerned.