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Thread: Pellets for 10m air pistol.

  1. #16
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    you to Robin,stay well

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    People talk about their wonderful tight ten shot test groups with all in the same hole, but the tens are irrelevant, we expect those, its the unexpected shot towards the 9 or worse a 9 out of the group that we are looking for. On metric with a rifle, if the shot is out of the group by 0.1 of where you pointed it, you loose 0.1, if with a pistol with integer and you point it at the edge of the ten, and its out by 0.1 (not you?) you loose a whole point, there is always the argument that you could save a point, but quoted law from Mr Sod above applies! Those who claim "acceptable" averages, or regular tens or 50's or 100's, what about the ones you missed? Do you shoot nothing but tens?

    Its beyond me, why save £4 over 2 and 1/2 weeks, £1.60 a week, if you are so hard up, I'm sorry if I offend you, but I'm I'm sure you can save that another way if your sport matters to you? Why risk loosing points? Maybe miss your PB, even though it may not equal the world record? Its the big advantage of shooting air, the cost is low.

    I've shot internationally air pistol, If you don't think you need the best pellets, that's your choice, and knowing Micky G well, and his coach, an old friend, the current GB coach, and also a CWG gold medalist, I can assure you they would say the same, for heavens sake just use the best, the cost difference is peanuts.

    Incidentally Mick used Qiang Yuan latterly, they are at least as good as RWS R10.

    I'm returning to my cave now, Hi Craig, hope you are well.

    Have Fun
    Robin

    Have Fun
    Robin,
    I don't disagree with you regarding pellets but as with most things it all needs to be in context. Someone else has already mentioned that there's a thread on another pistol forum (Target talk) that unless you shoot above 555 there's little point in shooting R10s for the sake of it. I'm now shooting just above that (not in competition because we haven't had any for over a year) but my technique is better now than it ever has been. This leads me to your point on the missed 10s. I can call my shots pretty much all the time now so when I get a rogue one it can be that 'oh, what happened there' moment. But I'd still say unless I'm shooting at national or international level the money spent on expensive ammo for the reasons you gave won't wash with me. If money weren't an object of course I'd probably shoot Qys and R10 or whatever else was the top pellet. Tbh, I couldn't afford to be a better shot as I couldn't afford to travel to the comps. I stopped shooting the Eley comp as going to Bisley is an expensive day out for me travelling from North Devon.
    I also shoot FT & HFT so the available budget needs to cover a multitude of airgun fun. My Field target shooting is also limited to shooting in my region and not travelling up country for that reason.

    I've got 4 tins of R10 left from when I switched to Geco 5 or 6 years ago. I might break one out and see if I can beat my PB of 573! Tbh, if they were tighter over a number of 600 series I'd consider switching, but my budgets still the same so I'll have to shoot less (more dry firing I hear you say) but that takes the fun out of the hobby!

    I do track all my shooting with the Target Scan app, so watching the trends with a particular pistol setup or pellet choice is easy.

    Regards,
    Rob
    Last edited by bootneckbob; 01-04-2021 at 09:23 AM.
    Steyr Challenge HFT - HW97K - BSA Mercury Challenger - Anschutz 9015 One - AA Pro Target - AA Pro Elite - ASI Paratrooper (R) - Walther LP500

  3. #18
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    Unless your average is well into the 90s, there's no point IMO in premium pellets. For every "squeaker" 10 that you miss because of the pellet, there will be a "squeaker" 10 that you gain. Law of averages. Stick to H & N Excite Econo or Geco and concentrate on sighting & trigger control.
    Walther CP-2 Match, FAS 604 & Tau 7 target pistols, Smith & Wesson 6" & 4" co2 pistol, Crosman 1377,
    Baikal IZH 53 pistol, Gamo CFX Royal,177, Umarex SA-10 CO2 pistol.

  4. #19
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    Thanks Guys

    Thanks for all your helpful replies, much appreciated.

  5. #20
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    A quick read of this and I have not spotted the obvious flaw with lower quality pellets.

    Consistency.

    Grouping with El Cheapo may provide a better group over five shots than Carlos Fandango Super Delux pellets, if the gun is not tuned to the quality pellet.
    But over a group of 10, or 20, or 60?
    With R10s, etc you are paying for a consistent performance that you simply don't get with cheaper pellets.

    It is quite likely that the fliers caused by a weight or sizing inconsistency will be unnoticeable when shot from the hand, but put it in a vice and fire 60 shot groups with pellets from different tins and you will see why it pays to batch test, tune the gun to the pellet and and spend the cost of a coffee extra each week on the ones that hold that 7 or 8 mm group.

  6. #21
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    High quality pellets just reduce the variables that I have to contend with when shooting. Buying the same pellets that the international shooters use just gives me one less aspect to analyse if my scores drop off or I have a bad card. Maybe that is largely a psychological advantage but it is still important to me. There is a cost factor but compared to the costs of guns, fees, travel, kit, memberships etc. it is a relatively small cost.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by McTrucky View Post
    A quick read of this and I have not spotted the obvious flaw with lower quality pellets.

    Consistency.

    Grouping with El Cheapo may provide a better group over five shots than Carlos Fandango Super Delux pellets, if the gun is not tuned to the quality pellet.
    But over a group of 10, or 20, or 60?
    With R10s, etc you are paying for a consistent performance that you simply don't get with cheaper pellets.
    I have to disagree. I use RWS Basics (approx £4/500) straight out of the tin and Ive shot over fifty 50 ex 50s with a variety of pistols
    .
    Founder & ex secretary of Rivington Riflemen.
    www.rivington-riflemen.uk

  8. #23
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    I'm going to have to disagree too

    I'm not going to say all cheap pellets work because they don't. Anyway, I hope the OP got some answers!
    Steyr Challenge HFT - HW97K - BSA Mercury Challenger - Anschutz 9015 One - AA Pro Target - AA Pro Elite - ASI Paratrooper (R) - Walther LP500

  9. #24
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    R10's everytime!!!

    Also I'm using 4.49 R10 rifle pellets in both my rifle and pistol, basically so I just buy the same pellets everytime!

    Would be interested to hear views on using the heavier rifle pellets (.53g v .45g) for 10m pistol?

  10. #25
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    Hi John I have been following you thread with interest, being new to 10 meter pistol I was trying to find a suitable pellet, I have no problem with the price if they are better, but I do believe in Value for Money not Money for “Nothing” if the variation in your shooting is greater than the variation of the pellets it is impossible to measure the effect the pellet has, so why waste money, use the cheaper pellets until they do make a difference to your score, probably around 85 plus at this point you need to ask what difference will 0.12 of a grain make to you?

    Just for a bit of fun I took a selection 12 different pellets designs, sizes and weights with a price range of £2.99 to £11.49,and a weight difference of 3.34gr not 0.12gr. I shot just 3 of each(yes I know JUST 3) with my TAU-7 CO2 pistol, I rested the pistol but remember that still leaves my eyesight to be taken into account, rapidly approaching 72 worn glasses for aprox 30 years, now have cataracts forming.

    The result was a group covered by a 2 pence piece (just under the size of the 9 ring) with 1 pellet just outside the group, that’s with a 3.34gr spread on the pellet weights and a large variation of designs and remember my eye sight.

    I repeated the above using my Rohm match, the results were a similar group only this time 3 shots outside the group, ironically 2 of them were the much talked about R10’s, these 2 shots were not only out of the group but 23mm apart as well.

    So unless you have a rock steady stance, a grip like a vice, 20 / 20 vision, 100% concentration, average score 85 plus and a top flight pistol (£1500 to £2500ish) do pellets make a difference? 12 different pellets 12 different POA’s 12 different weights (3.34gr range) 76 shots 96%approx in the 9 ring (including the £2.99/500) Sadly the answer is very likely in most cases no, certainly not in mine.
    Lastly always remember the highest price does not always equal the best quality do not spend “MONEY FOR NOTHING”, find a pellet that suits your pistol not a price, and the most important thing ENJOY your shooting I know I do.

    Pellets:- Hobby, R10, H&N Match, JSB Match, RWS Supermag, Excite ECON11, Air Arms Diabolo Express, JSB Exact, JSB Hades, RWS Super Field, RWS Super Point Extra, RWS Power Ball. Quite a selection! Econ 11 £2.99 R10 £9.19 £6.20 difference not a small insignificant amount to me, I use about 1 tin / week, not all 10m pistol, £322 more per year just for FUN, somebody really is having a laugh.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discocom View Post
    R10's everytime!!!

    Would be interested to hear views on using the heavier rifle pellets (.53g v .45g) for 10m pistol?
    I have found with three Morini 162s across four barrels (given a vented prototype to trial) that they were more accurate with heavier (ie rifle) pellets. H&N Finale Match and Qiang yaun 'Olympic' and 'Training' being pellets of choice. Steyrs I believe were less fussy, but only from seeing others batch test, not from personal knowledge.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrisK View Post
    So unless you have a rock steady stance, a grip like a vice, 20 / 20 vision, 100% concentration, average score 85 plus and a top flight pistol (£1500 to £2500ish) do pellets make a difference? 12 different pellets 12 different POA’s 12 different weights (3.34gr range) 76 shots 96%approx in the 9 ring (including the £2.99/500) Sadly the answer is very likely in most cases no, certainly not in mine.
    Lastly always remember the highest price does not always equal the best quality do not spend “MONEY FOR NOTHING”, find a pellet that suits your pistol not a price, and the most important thing ENJOY your shooting I know I do.
    This. Absolutely.

    The most consistent pellets may make 3 or 4% difference to your scores. Having the belief that what you are using is good enough and no doubts in your mind affecting your confidence will make a 10 to 20% difference to your scores. Obviously not scientifically measuring those percentages, but there is zero doubt that the mental aspects of pistol shooting far outweigh the variation in the capability of the equipment.
    And to rephrase my comments up this thread - it is consistency you need. No point having equipment that is 99.9% accurate for only 90% of the time.

  13. #28
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    there is just one thing that should be done by anyone who wants to get serious accuracy.

    firstly have a bunch of pellets to test, if its a non recoiling pistol or gun clamp it at desired distance and shoot groups of 10

    then pick the best 1 or 2 and start weighing them to create consistency piles , then clamp pistol or rifle again and use the piles of sorted pellets to shoot more groups ect ,.....pick the weight that's best and there you have the best pellet suited to your specific barrel pistol/rifle/power setup,...you then can test by washing /lubing some and get your results.
    once you narrow the best of what you have it becomes easy to fine tune and extract the very best accuracy out of a pellet.

    NOW the rest and most important of all these tests is your own abilities to hold and release that trigger and how stable you can keep that rifle/pistol whilst and after release of the shot from going off ,...this is by far the most important factor in any accuracy shooting and don't think a pellet that is more expensive will be better than another with ought testing its limits as I mention above.

    the truth of the matter is , even if you knew a specific pellet was the best in your pistol/riffle , it doesn't mean that you will benefit from it compared to another brand that's lets say tighter in the bore,... as if you slightly jerk to the right for instance that pellet that's tighter and has a slower lock time and takes longer to exit the barrel, may give you tighter groups when shot out of the clamp with your own natural technique

    it all can get very technical and when talking about getting the best possible score/accuracy it really depends on how much you want to get involved in the real science behind why some are far superior shooters to others,...

    basically iff you follow my advice up top on shooting groups and then splitting into different
    ALL very possible with the knowledge and practice

    I personally get on really well with Bisley practice in my 10 meter pistols and have won many gold and silver ware with them. I even used to test my best few pellets out to 40 yards on calm day to really extract information on paper. to some this is pointless but I actually shoot cans out to 45 yards so to me 10meters is just the beginning of the testing, so you can say I have a fair bit of testing knowledge over the years as I am a bit nuts like that, I like to find the limits and enjoy the science behind everything and extracting further accuracy, all logged in books in the loft somewhere when I used to be hardcore into my competition shooting before the kids where born of course when life wasn't so chaotic !

    wow that was a waffle! must get some work done!

    all the best

    Daniel
    Last edited by Dan944; 07-04-2021 at 10:09 AM.
    my 2 in 1 self resetting HFT training/plinking metal targets for sale in brand new items section

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