Border force.

[bighit]

Not sure if this affects collectors items but it's a heads up incase you buy via companies abroad.

I ordered a Weihrauch HW50S from Krale in the Netherlands.

I was originally going to buy an HW99S from a local RFD but most shops were closed (due to lockdown) or out of stock.

Placing the order was easy enough and the package was shipped quickly. However, after a week or so the package was still not delivered and seemed to be stuck at the UPS depot in Stanford-le-Hope. UPS couldn't locate the package and Krale wasn't very helpful, claiming that there was a customs backlog due to [Politics are banned - read the Forum Rules] delays.

A few weeks later, I got a letter from Border Force stating that the package had been detained and needed to be sent to an RFD from where I could collect it, this was due to the face to face transfer law added to the VCRA Act 2006 (s32). I called the telephone number on the letter a number of times but no one answered. I contacted Krale but they insisted that the package was with UPS and they assured me that it would eventually be delivered.

A few more weeks pass and still no package. At this point, Krale admit they don't know where the package is and ask UPS to investigate. In the mean time, I receive another letter from Border Force stating that the goods have now been seized under Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons).

I've emailed Border Force pointing out that:

1. The HW50S is an airgun with muzzle energy below the legal limit and as such there are nor prohibitions or restrictions on importing it.

2. The Face to face law in the VCRA Act 2006 (s32) only applies to RFDs. It does not apply to private individuals nor to firearms dealers base abroad.

3. Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) does not apply to airguns.

In spite of this, I got an email last week from Border Force that they have begun processing my case and expect it to proceed to magistrates' court (unless I acquiesce) where I might be liable to pay their legal costs of at least £2500 if I lose

[Jerry Cornelius]

I can’t say any of this comes as a surprise

You are of course completely correct. If you stand your ground, politely, you will eventually get your airgun. Expect to receive many threatening letters and possibly have a trip to court before then, do not expect HMRC ever to admit they are wrong, and when they are shown to be wrong do not expect them to do anything different next time

Are you n BASC? If you are I’d give them a ring.

[bighit]

I can’t say any of this comes as a surprise

You are of course completely correct. If you stand your ground, politely, you will eventually get your airgun. Expect to receive many threatening letters and possibly have a trip to court before then, do not expect HMRC ever to admit they are wrong, and when they are shown to be wrong do not expect them to do anything different next time

Are you n BASC? If you are I’d give them a ring.

It was posted on another forum Jerry.

Krale have so far refused a refund.

Have a look at the buying from EU thread in general airgun.

The border force have had MPs contacting them about it but it's still going on .

There will he lots of people getting caught up.

[Jerry Cornelius]

It was posted on another forum Jerry.

Krale have so far refused a refund.

Have a look at the buying from EU thread in general airgun.

The border force have had MPs contacting them about it but it's still going on .

There will he lots of people getting caught up.

Yup. Imagine how good the “illegal guns seized “ statistics will look though.

[bighit]

Yup. Imagine how good the “illegal guns seized “ statistics will look though.

Yeah.

[smallholder1]

It was posted on another forum Jerry.

Krale have so far refused a refund.

Have a look at the buying from EU thread in general airgun.

The border force have had MPs contacting them about it but it's still going on .

There will he lots of people getting caught up.

I don't see why krale should refund they kept up their end and posted gun why should they lose out due to our countries anti gun attitude.......call the border force out and go to court with a good barrister you will win they pay all the costs you get your gun.....but I think moral is don't buy from abroad

[harvey_s]

BF are just using bullying tactics to cover up their own ineptitude.
Most people probably never did any real research about the legality of importing airguns post-leaving the EU before buying.
They probably won't want to now either preferring just to ask other people for the answer.
So I suspect many will just cave in rather than defending themselves and potentially suffering a much larger loss...

[Jerry Cornelius]

BF are just using bullying tactics to cover up their own ineptitude.
Most people probably never did any real research about the legality of importing airguns post-leaving the EU before buying.
They probably won't want to now either preferring just to ask other people for the answer.
So I suspect many will just cave in rather than defending themselves and potentially suffering a much larger loss...

T’was ever thus with customs.

[bighit]

I don't see why krale should refund they kept up their end and posted gun why should they lose out due to our countries anti gun attitude.......call the border force out and go to court with a good barrister you will win they pay all the costs you get your gun.....but I think moral is don't buy from abroad

If Krale is allowed to have the Rifle sent back to them then I see no issue with a refund.

There was another case where Toro refunded the buyer when his pistol was seized. It may have been sent back to Toro but when the uk buyer asked if Toro had it sent back Toro did not reply.

Yes they did not have to reply as he was no longer in a deal with them but it may have been good to hear it was not destroyed.

[smallholder1]

If Krale is allowed to have the Rifle sent back to them then I see no issue with a refund.

There was another case where Toro refunded the buyer when his pistol was seized. It may have been sent back to Toro but when the uk buyer asked if Toro had it sent back Toro did not reply.

Yes they did not have to reply as he was no longer in a deal with them but it may have been good to hear it was not destroyed.

yes if krale got it back then refund but they have not got it customs have

[oneseven]

Not sure if this affects collectors items but it's a heads up incase you buy via companies abroad.

I ordered a Weihrauch HW50S from Krale in the Netherlands.

I was originally going to buy an HW99S from a local RFD but most shops were closed (due to lockdown) or out of stock.

Placing the order was easy enough and the package was shipped quickly. However, after a week or so the package was still not delivered and seemed to be stuck at the UPS depot in Stanford-le-Hope. UPS couldn't locate the package and Krale wasn't very helpful, claiming that there was a customs backlog due to [Politics are banned - read the Forum Rules] delays.

A few weeks later, I got a letter from Border Force stating that the package had been detained and needed to be sent to an RFD from where I could collect it, this was due to the face to face transfer law added to the VCRA Act 2006 (s32). I called the telephone number on the letter a number of times but no one answered. I contacted Krale but they insisted that the package was with UPS and they assured me that it would eventually be delivered.

A few more weeks pass and still no package. At this point, Krale admit they don't know where the package is and ask UPS to investigate. In the mean time, I receive another letter from Border Force stating that the goods have now been seized under Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons).

I've emailed Border Force pointing out that:

1. The HW50S is an airgun with muzzle energy below the legal limit and as such there are nor prohibitions or restrictions on importing it.

2. The Face to face law in the VCRA Act 2006 (s32) only applies to RFDs. It does not apply to private individuals nor to firearms dealers base abroad.

3. Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) does not apply to airguns.

In spite of this, I got an email last week from Border Force that they have begun processing my case and expect it to proceed to magistrates' court (unless I acquiesce) where I might be liable to pay their legal costs of at least £2500 if I lose

I had similar threats after a lock knife was taken by BF on my return from a hunting trip in Africa to Heathrow. They claimed my pen knife was an offensive weapon. I countered that it was not, that I had purchased it in the UK and was transporting it for a legitimate reason. I was told the only way I would be able to challenge the confiscation was by taking BF to court.

So I made the appropriate application. Eventually i received calls asking me to withdraw my protest or face being forced to pay their costs. I maintained that I was correct and that they would end up paying my legal costs and for my time out of work when the court found in my favour. Eventually a CPS lawyer called me and told me I was free to go back to Heathrow and collect it. I refused this and said I wanted an apology and the knife returned to me.

I got an email from a supervisor which was a sort of apology but did not admit their fault, but two BF officers had to drive to me from Heathrow to hand deliver my penknife.

I still feel bad that my penknife will be in their "knives taken off the streets statistics", but hopefully they learned something.

Please don't give in to the bullying tactics if you're confident you're in the right. They can't make the law up as they see fit.

[Jimny4x4]

Been a while . What happened to this ?

[bighit]

Been a while . What happened to this ?

Never saw an update.

[Garvin]

I had similar threats after a lock knife was taken by BF on my return from a hunting trip in Africa to Heathrow. They claimed my pen knife was an offensive weapon. I countered that it was not, that I had purchased it in the UK and was transporting it for a legitimate reason. I was told the only way I would be able to challenge the confiscation was by taking BF to court.

So I made the appropriate application. Eventually i received calls asking me to withdraw my protest or face being forced to pay their costs. I maintained that I was correct and that they would end up paying my legal costs and for my time out of work when the court found in my favour. Eventually a CPS lawyer called me and told me I was free to go back to Heathrow and collect it. I refused this and said I wanted an apology and the knife returned to me.

I got an email from a supervisor which was a sort of apology but did not admit their fault, but two BF officers had to drive to me from Heathrow to hand deliver my penknife.

I still feel bad that my penknife will be in their "knives taken off the streets statistics", but hopefully they learned something.

Please don't give in to the bullying tactics if you're confident you're in the right. They can't make the law up as they see fit.

Great to read this! Well done oneseven. Very brave.

[Turnup]

Been a while . What happened to this ?

Probably because he either bottled out of the court action or went to court and lost.

As I understand it the sale of airguns by mail order is not allowed. Sure the overseas seller cannot be prosecuted since UK laws do not apply to him, but this will not prevent the BF from declining to be party to an offence.