Explosives Certificate - Reclassification of blackpowder substitutes

[DesG]

I don't know how they will put them (smokeless) on the explosive license. I think they would have to create a new category and a new license.
There has been talk of smokeless being stored like blackpowder but it is pointless, it is not an explosive and only burns fiercely when unconfined.
The original reason for the storage of blackpowder was not for security reasons, it was to give the occupants time to vacate the premises to avoid being caught in the blast if there was a fire. Once the fire reaches the BP and one canister explodes it will destroy the storage box and cause a chain reaction. By which time there should be no one left in the building.

In the eighties bp had to be stored in a wooden lined metal box. I used an old ammo box lined with thin ply. Someone then twigged that’s a metal box full of gunpowder was not a good idea. The same feo who was mouthing off about nc powder also insists that my bp boxes have anti tamper screws to prevent anyone from nicking the powder. I pointed out that a, Ive never seen a fire use a screwdriver and b, it’s a wooden box-a hammer will open it! But, no anti tamper screws then no licence. It’s pointless trying to argue with someone like that.

[loiner1965]

was told yesterday at colms funeral that batches of 777 that arrived in the uk had been stamped with the wrong stamp hence the confusion

[davederrick]

was told yesterday at colms funeral that batches of 777 that arrived in the uk had been stamped with the wrong stamp hence the confusion

Hogden website says Pyrodex is UN0499 on the product safety page.

[loiner1965]

Hogden website says Pyrodex is UN0499 on the product safety page.

just had a quick look and you are correct but i only saw it under transport guidance

[Peter Dunkley]

In the eighties bp had to be stored in a wooden lined metal box. I used an old ammo box lined with thin ply. Someone then twigged that’s a metal box full of gunpowder was not a good idea. The same feo who was mouthing off about nc powder also insists that my bp boxes have anti tamper screws to prevent anyone from nicking the powder. I pointed out that a, Ive never seen a fire use a screwdriver and b, it’s a wooden box-a hammer will open it! But, no anti tamper screws then no licence. It’s pointless trying to argue with someone like that.

Just cant see this. If someone wants to steal your powder just have it away with the box!!! If the box is chained to a bench as my FEO insisted on then a small pair of bolt cutters. I suspect someone has got it round his neck. The spec for the boxes which are sold says nothing about the screws.

[enfield2band]

Just cant see this. If someone wants to steal your powder just have it away with the box!!! If the box is chained to a bench as my FEO insisted on then a small pair of bolt cutters. I suspect someone has got it round his neck. The spec for the boxes which are sold says nothing about the screws.

It depends on the FEO.
Generally it is:-

Chain it up.
Don't chain it up (so you can throw it out of the window if there is a fire).
Put it in the loft
Don't put it in the loft.
Put it in a cupboard out of sight.
Don't put it in a cupboard.

Anti-tamper screws is a new one for the list.

[Born Again]

Henry Kranks website says you need an explosives licence (UN0499) to buy 777, but not for Pyrodex.

https://www.henrykrank.com/blog/orde...d-and-why.html

[svincett]

Been to Kranks this week

Rang them to see which license was needed , they said bp licence with 026/027

I explained it was triple 7 fffg muzzle loading powder that I had previously purchased from them when it was classified 0161

They said it had to be ordered as they now keep it off site, so it was ordered for the following day to be collected

Following day went to collect it with bp license, they refused to sell it as didn’t have 0499 on bp license

I explained that I had asked it I could get it on my bp license as it was a 40 mile round trip

They said 0499 has to be on my bp ticket , otherwise they can’t sell it !

I said that I understand that which is why I rang them first before hand 😡

They couldn’t understand why I would want triple 7 despite it being a muzzle loading powder for my muzzle loaders

They also said that they wouldn’t buy a second hand gun that had been used with triple 7 !



Rang North Yorkshire Police and they said I need to apply to have 0499 put on my bp license

[series2a]

Been to Kranks this week

Rang them to see which license was needed , they said bp licence with 026/027

I explained it was triple 7 fffg muzzle loading powder that I had previously purchased from them when it was classified 0161

They said it had to be ordered as they now keep it off site, so it was ordered for the following day to be collected

Following day went to collect it with bp license, they refused to sell it as didn’t have 0499 on bp license

I explained that I had asked it I could get it on my bp license as it was a 40 mile round trip

They said 0499 has to be on my bp ticket , otherwise they can’t sell it !

I said that I understand that which is why I rang them first before hand 😡

They couldn’t understand why I would want triple 7 despite it being a muzzle loading powder for my muzzle loaders

They also said that they wouldn’t buy a second hand gun that had been used with triple 7 !



Rang North Yorkshire Police and they said I need to apply to have 0499 put on my bp license

Kranks Useless as usual see my post on them. AVOID

[DesG]

It depends on the FEO.
Generally it is:-

Chain it up.
Don't chain it up (so you can throw it out of the window if there is a fire).
Put it in the loft
Don't put it in the loft.
Put it in a cupboard out of sight.
Don't put it in a cupboard.

Anti-tamper screws is a new one for the list.

I make them and sell them on the bay. When a different feo came to do my renewal a year back I showed him the 15 bp boxes ready for sale and he couldn't understand why I had used anti tamper screws. I told him that his colleague insisted on them and his response was "oh him!"

All very helpful!

I've sold well over a hundred of them Europe wide with no problems from any of the forces.

[ZAKDINGEL]

I have never loaded Black powder so at the moment no need for a ticket ==but what I cant understand is why put a explosive into a sealed container surly its far safer to be stored on a self in a cool place out of sight then if there was a fire "god forbid" it would burn up quickly rather than be contained --your just storing a bomb when its boxed

[bighit]

I have never loaded Black powder so at the moment no need for a ticket ==but what I cant understand is why put a explosive into a sealed container surly its far safer to be stored on a self in a cool place out of sight then if there was a fire "god forbid" it would burn up quickly rather than be contained --your just storing a bomb when its boxed

The longer it takes for the fire to get to it the more time you have to get away from it.

[HarrisK]

A little light bedtime reading from the HSE regarding powder storage, rules changed Jan 1st 2021, enjoy yourselves



https://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/li...rage/index.htm

[LiamPullman]

I saw that this thread is a couple of years old, but I'll still share my thoughts. It's always important to stay up-to-date on any changes in regulations and requirements when it comes to explosives and firearms. Thanks for sharing this info about blackpowder substitutes and the new classification.It's good to know that some sellers are taking the necessary precautions. Speaking of substitutes, have you ever used titegroup powder before? It's a popular choice among reloaders and can work well for certain types of rounds. Thanks for sharing this info, and happy shooting!

[enfield2band]

I have never loaded Black powder so at the moment no need for a ticket ==but what I cant understand is why put a explosive into a sealed container surly its far safer to be stored on a self in a cool place out of sight then if there was a fire "god forbid" it would burn up quickly rather than be contained --your just storing a bomb when its boxed

Blackpowder is an explosive. it will explode if in a fire.

Smokeless powder is not. It burns fiercely if in a fire.

Storing blackpowder in a box is so the occupants have time to vacate the premises before it explodes if there is a fire.

When the BP box was first introduced, like you, I thought it would be a potential bomb. I wrote to the HSE, Explosives, to express my concern. They explained the reason to me and then it made sense. If I recall correctly in their tests it took approximately 18 minutes for the fire to ignite the blackpowder. (Ample time to vacate the premises). The time, obviously, is dependent on the fierceness of the fire in relation to the location of the BP.