Webley Rebel bolt seal question

[Lawrie Amatruda]

OK not a huge amount of luck with this as its now doing 215m/s about 705 fps with a 8.3g pellet so that's 9.16ftlb. The pellet receiver breach is still letting air out, even after the seals from Lawrie (thank you again) maybe not so much but enough to push a piece of paper about a foot into the air!

The cylinder to barrel I relocated and aligned with a slightly bigger tougher seal in place, which was a really good fit, a small amount of air does still escape between the barrel and pump cylinder, but not as much as I'd noticed before 👍

I'm guessing that's where the extra 15m/s came from, as I couldn't get it past 200m/s previously.

So I know it's a stupid question, but is some air escape normal? Or should the paper remain in place on the breach and cylinder 🤔

I've adjusted the pump arm to get maximum power from it, it holds in place when fired and locks fine when pumped without stress on the rod. It's letting off after 7 pumps, as I'm using a innova internal pump rod as the webley one couldn't be adjusted much.

Would the power issue be down to the port hole being too small as I really would like to get 10.5 ftlb out of it to be happy, I'm at a lose with the T Robb guide to hand it's just not getting close to 10ftlb and air still escapes.

I'd happily buy a 22 as this should get to 10.5 but the 177 just seems stuck at 9ftlbs and air leaks 😭

Any thoughts or advise welcome on the delima.

Atb

I presume you mean the valve in the pump head is blowing off after 7 pumps, if so you may need to adjust it to blow off with more pumps, if this is the problem, be aware that it could go over the legal limit when doing this, but it is easy enough to adjust it to give you power you need, just a thought

Cheers,

Lawrie.

[kash2001]

Hi Lawrie yes so I'm using the original innova pump stem and valve, the nut behind the pump head is tight up against the pump seal compressing the blow off valve as hard as it can. So I can't see much more to do with that. 🤔 As there's no compression room left.

It's certainly stiff if pumping after 4 pumps the 7th is difficult. It's not leaking or blowing at air so it's holding the compression 👍 but on firing some air comes out the back pellet probe still and a little from the front so it's not 100% sealed. An inch bit of
Paper still.flies off.

So although everything works and is hard to.pump.and holds pressure it's only doing 215m/s max 😱

I'm stuck 🤣 unless as Ped says the barrel is a little out of align, but I wouldn't think air would escape past the probe if so.

Atb

[--ped--]

not out of align but not glued in fully when assembled at the factory so air is passing on the outside of the barrel rearwards

[kash2001]

Hi Ped thanks for the insight, I guess it's a possibility as air still comes from the barrel/block area, there is definitely air coming from the pellet port as I can feel it puff out from the inlet.

What glue should would you recommend and I assume the barrel screws are under the rest sight to remove this 🙄

Good info and hadn't thought of that. The seal I have in place is slightly thicker and tougher than the original that made a good fit. But glueing is a way forward.

Thanks for that 👍

Atb

[--ped--]

the barrels are only glued in
before attemting to seperate the barrel i'd exhaust all other possibilities

[kash2001]

Hi Ped

Many thanks for the further advice much appreciated, I'm trying everything else 1st as said in the hope of fixing it properly. I've got an original Innova valve setup but at present I'm trying to make sure the pump arm valve system is 100% as Lawrie had a thought on this side.

Hopefully it'll come together but I still dont know why air is escaping from the pellet pórt. Maybe mine is just poorly machined plastic and never sealed well.

Hopefully something will come of it, if it were a 22, it would have easily made 10ftlb by now, but the 177 is a proper struggle.

Atb

[ZAKDINGEL]

Hi Ped

Many thanks for the further advice much appreciated, I'm trying everything else 1st as said in the hope of fixing it properly. I've got an original Innova valve setup but at present I'm trying to make sure the pump arm valve system is 100% as Lawrie had a thought on this side.

Hopefully it'll come together but I still dont know why air is escaping from the pellet pórt. Maybe mine is just poorly machined plastic and never sealed well.

Hopefully something will come of it, if it were a 22, it would have easily made 10ftlb by now, but the 177 is a proper struggle.

Atb

What you can do if you think the pellet bolt seal is not fitting correctly is to pack the underside with some thread to make it a tighter fit --but this should only be done to prove this is your problem -it may need to have a over size o ring fitted --and as PED has said the barrel is only glued in to the block it is possible this has cracked? or has being miss aligned? you can re glue them in with epoxy resin "i have used that stuff from pound world with good results" just make sure if you do it that the port hole in the barrel lines up with the hole threw the block I used a small drill bit as a line up tool

[kash2001]

Hi Zakdingel thanks for the suggestions, the probe seal thing 🙄 "pack the underside with some thread" I'm not 100% sure what type of thread to use.

The barrel is quite firm so unless misaligned, I'm reluctant to break the seal, but if all else doesn't work then that's where I'll have to go 👍 I can get an Allen key through to the barrel top but I guess it needn't be to far out to cause an issue.

The seal for the probe i think will need something much firmer, but untill I sort what the actual cause is I'll keep the seal as it's doing about a 75/80% job.

Atb

[deejayuu]

Bit late to this and limited experience with the Rebel but some success. Can you do static pressure test from muzzle end with bike pump etc to identify leaks?
Very useful, for us, with tricky faults.

[kash2001]

Hi deejayuu thanks for the input and idea, in certain situations that looks a good idea.

Fortunately I've done the seals and it doesn't leak when pumped and holds air, it does go off with a sharp crack, but the power isn't reflected in that noise at all.

9ftlb is all pretty much.it, trying a few ideas that Lawrie suggested, then if nothing works out, I'll have to replace the compression valve.
But the air only escapes out of the pellet port and barrel/action area, when fired.

I'll try also to fit 2 seals in the pellet probe incase it helps make a better seal, but I doubt it 🙄

Atb

[kash2001]

Ok a big cry for help as I'm really stuck now 🙄 Lawrie kindly supplied the inner pump seal that is the internal seal to the pump arm compression valve.

The old one was red but almost impossible to get out, but managed it by cutting it and scrapping it out. However the new seal is almost impossible to front to the head end and seat it, it just goes in sideways and won't go over the inner brass lip to seal against the face. I've tried putting it in hot water to soften it but no joy, how does this seal go in?

Any help and advise greatfully appreciated as I'm stuck on this.

But I did find that pushing the pellet into the port with an Allen key does give me a furthe 10 fps nothing much but I'll try to.sort a solution to this eventually.

Many thanks 😅

[--ped--]

if you mean the piston head seal i put a bit of silicone oil on it and get it located then put the piston in the tube and use the pump arm to press it in place
if it doesn't go like this take a few thou off the lip in the piston head

[kash2001]

I did forget to mention that the pump assembly is an original Innovas not the Webley rebel set up.

Many thanks

[kash2001]

if you mean the piston head seal i put a bit of silicone oil on it and get it located then put the piston in the tube and use the pump arm to press it in place
if it doesn't go like this take a few thou off the lip in the piston head

Hi ped thanks for the input, I was trying to discribe the inner part of the brass assembly with includes the spring/seat cup and the red seal that sits behind the pump head seal.

It's that red seal that won't sit in the brass pump inner.

Atb

[deejayuu]

Many thanks Col


Is there a good seal that'll stop air escaping out the back of the action?

Many thanks

The BSA probe seal works very well in ours. Makes adequate energy quite readily. Can send one if need be.