Recoiless vs recoiling FWB experiment

[ptdunk]

Hi all,
I wanted to compare the accuracy of a recoiless FWB 150 vs a Recoiling FWB 110 (basically the same rifle, one with and one without the sledge system) and do a little video on it.

Just tried 10 shots rested with each at 20yds and accuracy is the same.

Going to do 5 shots standing at 10m with each (I’m not a proper 10m shooter though)

Any suggestions on other ways to compare accuracy?

Ideally I’d get a pcp only shooter to try as I suspect they’d find the 150 more accurate.

150 has a Tyrolean stock so I’ll put this on the 110 too for a fair comparison on the standing shots.


Any ideas?

Cheers,
Matt

[Geezer]

It would be interesting if someone tried that with an FWB65, which comes with a facility to lock the sled, intended as a rimfire training feature.

[Garvin]

I think the fact the two rifles were comparably accurate says more about your shooting rather than the guns themselves, in that you are conditioned to ignoring recoil. It could be interesting if you showed the different firing characteristics in slow motion, perhaps?

[Geezer]

Wondering if anyone has an archive of contemporary match scores from the 60s, which might demonstrate any edge the 150 had over the 110, or early recoilless rifles in general over the recoiling kind?

[ptdunk]

I think the fact the two rifles were comparably accurate says more about your shooting rather than the guns themselves, in that you are conditioned to ignoring recoil.

You might be right… maybe I’ll do a string of shots using good springer technique, and another string of shots gripping the rifles more tightly.
It may be that the recoiless FWB’s gave new shooters more accurate results.

Cheers,
Matt

[Geezer]

You might be right… maybe I’ll do a string of shots using good springer technique, and another string of shots gripping the rifles more tightly.
It may be that the recoiless FWB’s gave new shooters more accurate results.

Cheers,
Matt

I think their real success was in being more forgiving of minor user errors by the better shooters over the course of a match.

[Shed tuner]

you need to intruduce hold sensitivity. Bench rested using perfect technique, I'd not expect much if any difference.

Remember this thread ?

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....tivity-testing

[ptdunk]

you need to intruduce hold sensitivity. Bench rested using perfect technique, I'd not expect much if any difference.

Remember this thread ?

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....tivity-testing

Ah, I didn’t see this.
As you said shame you didn’t have a standard TX to compare.
Good thread.

Cheers,
Matt

[TonyL]

Nothing to add other than to agree with the above points. Many recoiling rifles will be just as accurate as their recoilless counterparts per se. It's the hold sensitivity that might separate the two. And even that may be pretty minimal in this experiment taking into account the narrow bore / light internals vs high all-up rifle weight.

[ptdunk]

Many recoiling rifles will be just as accurate as their recoilless counterparts per se..

Are there any other examples of a factory recoiling version of any of the match rifles? I only know of the fwb 120/150, the Diana 70/72 junior rifles and the full power TXSR.


Cheers,
Matt

[Drew451]

Are there any other examples of a factory recoiling version of any of the match rifles? I only know of the fwb 120/150, the Diana 70/72 junior rifles and the full power TXSR.


Cheers,
Matt

Not match rifles but Dianas 52 and 54 Airking would make an interesting comparison.

I think the posts above have hit the nail in the head..

[dvd]

Are there any other examples of a factory recoiling version of any of the match rifles? I only know of the fwb 120/150, the Diana 70/72 junior rifles and the full power TXSR.


Cheers,
Matt

Hi Matt,
Maybe I'm missing something and can't see your objective, but the actions of the 70 and 72 are very different from each other.
The idler gear covers on the latter are an instant giveaway to what would otherwise look like identical guns.

The recoilless mod 6 pistol upon which the 72's action is based, was the budget version of the proper target mod 10 pistol.
The mod 70 was based on the recoiling mod 5 pistol.

Recoilless will outscore recoiling when the senses begin to wane at the end of the competitive day.

Aren't airguns fun?

David

[ptdunk]

Hi Matt,
Maybe I'm missing something and can't see your objective

David

Hi David, it’s just to see how much difference the Feinwerkbau sledge system makes to accuracy.
I have a 150 & 110 which are identical apart from one recoils and one doesn’t.

Seems everyone was right…
I just did 10 shots with each, rested. Once with my usual light springer hold and once holding it a bit tighter.
Full results to follow but in the meantime I can say there was no real difference in accuracy.

The recoiling 110 preferred the lighter hold, and the recoiless 150 preferred the tighter hold (???)

I have to say I’m surprised, I thought the 150 would be noticeably more accurate, although they are both great rifles, and I’m secretly a bit pleased the 110 did well.
Makes me think it owed a lot to the rifles general design, based on the Anschutz 220.

Here are some some slo-mo shots of the mechanisms to compare, interestingly the sledge system on the 150 seems to travel the exact distance that the 110 moves as a result of its untamed recoil.

https://instagram.com/p/CSo38xZH10M/

It’s my understanding that Feinwerkbau made the 110 first, and within a year had patented their sledge system and made the 150. I wonder if they used the 110 to work out exactly how far the sledge system would need to travel?

Anyway I’ll post the groups and full vid soon.
And yes, airguns are fun.

Matt

[dvd]

Ah, ok I get it now. Thanks for the vid.
Good of you to give a mention to the grand daddy of the "modern" target rifle, the Anschutz 220.

[Geezer]

Anyone remember the 80s ads (Sussex Armoury, I think) for discounted HW55s claiming scientific proof that the pellet had left the barrel before any recoil-induced movement took place?

I always thought they were BS.