Do collectors have any preference for 177 or 22 when purchasing?

[andrewM]

Thank you, everyone, for your contributions which I found most interesting. It appears that there is no particular pattern at work, here. I expected, when I started the thread, to see a clear preference one way or the other but that seems not to exist.

I can quite understand that some collectors prefer 177 if few of these were made in the rifle in question - the FWB 124 being an example here.

Equally, the 177 has a lower trajectory, which gives it an advantage over longer ranges.

I did expect to see some preference for 22 in sporting use and also where rifles are used for both purposes and this has been touched upon but not to any predominant degree. Whilst, traditionally, 22 was used for sporting purposes and promoted by the manufacturers for this, I seem to recall a fashion for 177 in 1980 through, say, to 1990 and perhaps longer.

There is more of a skill in getting right the trajectory in 22 but this is much assisted with a telescope.

As for the .25, I have never had one of these as I was deterred by the curved trajectory.

Rgds to all
Andrew.

[Geezer]

Thank you, everyone, for your contributions which I found most interesting. It appears that there is no particular pattern at work, here. I expected, when I started the thread, to see a clear preference one way or the other but that seems not to exist.

I can quite understand that some collectors prefer 177 if few of these were made in the rifle in question - the FWB 124 being an example here.

Equally, the 177 has a lower trajectory, which gives it an advantage over longer ranges.

I did expect to see some preference for 22 in sporting use and also where rifles are used for both purposes and this has been touched upon but not to any predominant degree. Whilst, traditionally, 22 was used for sporting purposes and promoted by the manufacturers for this, I seem to recall a fashion for 177 in 1980 through, say, to 1990 and perhaps longer.

There is more of a skill in getting right the trajectory in 22 but this is much assisted with a telescope.

As for the .25, I have never had one of these as I was deterred by the curved trajectory.

Rgds to all
Andrew.

I’m sure that FWB sold a lot more 124s than 127s, globally. Just not in the U.K.

In my recollection, .177” as a hunting calibre in the U.K. only really took off from about 1990. Partly as a result of people’s experience shooting .177” in FT, and partly a function of shooters exploring the accuracy potential of PCPs, especially fitted with FT-influenced scopes (4-16, 6-24) the magnification of which would have seemed ludicrous on an air rifle just a few years earlier.

I’d still bet though that the majority of air rifles sold in the U.K. for pest control remain .22”.

[andrewM]

I’m sure that FWB sold a lot more 124s than 127s, globally. Just not in the U.K.

In my recollection, .177” as a hunting calibre in the U.K. only really took off from about 1990. Partly as a result of people’s experience shooting .177” in FT, and partly a function of shooters exploring the accuracy potential of PCPs, especially fitted with FT-influenced scopes (4-16, 6-24) the magnification of which would have seemed ludicrous on an air rifle just a few years earlier.

I’d still bet though that the majority of air rifles sold in the U.K. for pest control remain .22”.

I have never seen one of these scopes, of such magnification, and I assume the cost is rather higher than the rifle for many of them.

I do recall, however, that 177 was becoming a popular calibre in 1979-80. I was still a teenager then and purchased a new Original 45 in 177. I think I had read of the attractions of 177 in AGW and I wanted to try it out, only having used 22 up to this point. Within a couple of years, I had lost interest in air rifles.

Many years later, having returned to the hobby, my marginal preference is for the 22 as the better all rounder but it is not emphatic. I appreciate that others have a clear preference for one or the other.

Another rifle which, it seems, is especially rare in 177 is the Birmingham made Longbow. That, of course, is rare enough to find in 22 these days.

Rgds
A

[Muskett]

John Darling was in his early days was an advocate of .177. He had a Crosman pump, circa 1980. Later he switched to .22 as his main quarry was rabbits. He also got very good at range judgement and the .22 drop. I think when he went PCP he chose .22 Fac???? His tuned HW80 was a .22. He would agree that perfect pellet placement is the only thing that really matters.

I switched in 1982 to .177 to "get beyond the farmyard". Field Target also switched, though some still had good results with .22.
In Europe target shooting, and even lower power than 12ft/lbs, were the reasons for .177. And in truth its the 12ft/lbs that gives .177 advantages. But increase the power/velocity no one would use .177.

For the UK then only 20% odd air rifles were sold as .177; so for collecting they demand a premioum. Not much but a bit.

[andrewM]

John Darling was in his early days was an advocate of .177. He had a Crosman pump, circa 1980. Later he switched to .22 as his main quarry was rabbits. He also got very good at range judgement and the .22 drop. I think when he went PCP he chose .22 Fac???? His tuned HW80 was a .22. He would agree that perfect pellet placement is the only thing that really matters.

I switched in 1982 to .177 to "get beyond the farmyard". Field Target also switched, though some still had good results with .22.
In Europe target shooting, and even lower power than 12ft/lbs, were the reasons for .177. And in truth its the 12ft/lbs that gives .177 advantages. But increase the power/velocity no one would use .177.

For the UK then only 20% odd air rifles were sold as .177; so for collecting they demand a premioum. Not much but a bit.

Excellent analysis and I think you are right in what you say. There would be little point using 177 at, for example, 25ft/lbs. It would be interesting to know how many with an FAC actually prefer 177.

Rgds
A

[Geezer]

Excellent analysis and I think you are right in what you say. There would be little point using 177 at, for example, 25ft/lbs. It would be interesting to know how many with an FAC actually prefer 177.

Rgds
A

I think almost no one.

There was, though, a phase in the 70s, and especially 80s when US shooters were very focussed on the velocity they could get out of their air rifles. It was a Big Thing that the .177” HW80/Beeman R1 could make 1000 fps with a light pellet (eg Hobby) and even more so when Beeman tuned them to hit 1100 (that is about 15-16 and 18 ft-lbs respectively).

[Drew451]

.177 sporting air rifles were always hard to come by up here in Scotland, although there were always some sourced mail order from dealers south of the border when the magazines started extolling the virtues of the smaller calibre.
I can remember visiting a relatively well stocked Glasgow dealer many years ago in the hope that he had some decent .177 rifles in stock. I was informed that there were no .177 rifles in the entire shop as no one bought them.
Only a few years ago, I bought a 1977 HW35E in the smaller calibre locally that an older chap had bought new. Pre Airgun World. I realised that he knew his onions and that I was quite lucky.

[Muskett]

The HW35E, and 35s in general were popular for Bell Target in the UK and target plinking in Europe. HWs in general were easy enough to buy in .177 if you wanted one.
Thing is to get that .177 going at a good velocity is harder than shoving the bigger .22 to get to the same power. Low powered target rifles aren't having to work too hard but hunting then its a big ask.

For 12ft/lbs then .177 is proven to be an advantage at distance as the FT boys show. Hunting its all about pellet placement perfection, so I hunt with a .177 unless in the farmyard where 20m is a long shot.
I part exchanged a Webley MK111 for a FWB Sport 124 in 1982, and my success rate went up. In ruth now I don't use an air riofle to hunt beyond 30m anyhow, as I have other rifles to do that.
In the old days a hit was good enough as the farm terrier would be onto anything in a flash. Few now have a terrier.