What was the Germans equivalent of Bell Target?

[ptdunk]

When we had the Bell target boom in the U.K in the early 1900’s what kind of short range indoor target shooting were the Germans doing with air rifles?

The beautiful hand made gallery guns became the Bugelspanner, which was still popular but that seems to have developed into a fairground gun.

As it was before WW1 I suppose there were no arms restrictions and a lot of Germans would have shot those lovely flobert Scheibenbusche target rifles instead of air rifles.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Matt

[45flint]

Great question that has interested me as well. But in my internet wondering I have found very little on Germany Airgun gatherings. They had extensive gun clubs but I think most were not Airgun? I have seen posters of soldiers practicing at a indoor target? But hardly any real information?

[ptdunk]

Great question that has interested me as well. But in my internet wondering I have found very little on Germany Airgun gatherings. They had extensive gun clubs but I think most were not Airgun? I have seen posters of soldiers practicing at a indoor target? But hardly any real information?

There is a great book you’d like called ‘Braun historical targets’ which outlines in some detail the history of the German ‘Schutzenfests’ all the way back to the 14th century.
Doesn’t cover airguns but is a fascinating read with great pics of all the painted targets they use to shoot at.
Originally in German but has been translated into English.


Cheers,
Matt

[Josie & John]

There is a great book you’d like called ‘Braun historical targets’ which outlines in some detail the history of the German ‘Schutzenfests’ all the way back to the 14th century.
Doesn’t cover airguns but is a fascinating read with great pics of all the painted targets they use to shoot at.
Originally in German but has been translated into English.


Cheers,
Matt

Agreed - an excellent book Matt. I keep calling the author Eva Braun though by mistake!

John

[Geezer]

I have no idea - it’s a very good question.

It’s not just bell target that boomed in the Edwardian era. Also the growth, including using air rifles, of Miniature Rifle Clubs.

[harvey_s]

Dingendongenmiteinluftiron... very popular in Munich

[45flint]

There is a great book you’d like called ‘Braun historical targets’ which outlines in some detail the history of the German ‘Schutzenfests’ all the way back to the 14th century.
Doesn’t cover airguns but is a fascinating read with great pics of all the painted targets they use to shoot at.
Originally in German but has been translated into English.


Cheers,
Matt

Interesting, they still have Schutzenfests in the US.

[coburn]

Invading Poland!

[Josie & John]

Hi Matt,

Marksmanship training was a prominent part of a Hitler Youth and pre teen Hitler Youth's training. Proficiency was encouraged through the awarding of medals and badges. A German language handbook I have has a thorough chapter on the subject and includes line drawings of the Haenel 33, Mars and Diana 30. Only trouble is the book is in German and I can't understand it!

I understand firearms ownership was curtailed by the Nazis, so prior to 1933 Schutzenfests were probably the most popular. The Germans and Eastern Europeans in general have a proud hunting heritage and a Schutzenfest was the ideal opportunity to show off your prowess with a rifle, then enjoy some beer. Postwar, certainly 10 metre match air rifle had its origins in Germany.

John

[ptdunk]

Hi Matt,

Marksmanship training was a prominent part of a Hitler Youth and pre teen Hitler Youth's training. Proficiency was encouraged through the awarding of medals and badges. A German language handbook I have has a thorough chapter on the subject and includes line drawings of the Haenel 33, Mars and Diana 30. Only trouble is the book is in German and I can't understand it!

I understand firearms ownership was curtailed by the Nazis, so prior to 1933 Schutzenfests were probably the most popular. The Germans and Eastern Europeans in general have a proud hunting heritage and a Schutzenfest was the ideal opportunity to show off your prowess with a rifle, then enjoy some beer. Postwar, certainly 10 metre match air rifle had its origins in Germany.

John

Thanks John.
If you get the Google app on your phone and take a photo of the text it will translate it for you.
(If you want you can email it to me and I’ll do it) I’d be interested to see what it says.

It’s a tricky subject, I’m doing a vid on my ‘33 soon but will concentrate on the mechanics of the rifle and might even refer to the Hitler Youth as ‘cadets’ not sure yet. It’s a mechanical work of genius how that mech works.

What I’m really interested in is that period pre WW1 in Germany, when the precision hand made gallery guns of the late 1800’s were falling out of favour, and over in the U.K. we were going nuts over Bell target with LJ BSA’s.
I wonder if the Schutzenfest’s had an airgun section, or people shot short range Airguns in clubs.

I know that arms restrictions combined with the German tradition of competitive target shooting led to the development of 10m match rifles but pre ww1 is a bit of a transitional period from gallery guns to German LJ BSA clones.

My 1902/03 Oscar Will catalogue still has gallery guns for sale, so maybe that tradition carried on till WW1?
Cheers,
Matt

[Geezer]

Thanks John.
If you get the Google app on your phone and take a photo of the text it will translate it for you.
(If you want you can email it to me and I’ll do it) I’d be interested to see what it says.

It’s a tricky subject, I’m doing a vid on my ‘33 soon but will concentrate on the mechanics of the rifle and might even refer to the Hitler Youth as ‘cadets’ not sure yet. It’s a mechanical work of genius how that mech works.

What I’m really interested in is that period pre WW1 in Germany, when the precision hand made gallery guns of the late 1800’s were falling out of favour, and over in the U.K. we were going nuts over Bell target with LJ BSA’s.
I wonder if the Schutzenfest’s had an airgun section, or people shot short range Airguns in clubs.

I know that arms restrictions combined with the German tradition of competitive target shooting led to the development of 10m match rifles but pre ww1 is a bit of a transitional period from gallery guns to German LJ BSA clones.

My 1902/03 Oscar Will catalogue still has gallery guns for sale, so maybe that tradition carried on till WW1?
Cheers,
Matt

Matt

As I said earlier, it’s a really interesting question, about which there seems, sadly, to be a dearth of information in English.

I do wonder how much German airgun production from 1900-14 and 1919-39 was aimed at their domestic market, and how much (especially in the dire economic straits of the 1920s, and the Versailles restrictions on arms production) was intended for export.

Maybe while our ancestors were doing bell target in the pub, or using “Morris tubes” under the railway arches, our Teutonic cousins were mostly just doing some light garden plinking?

The Hitler Youth thing is a judgement call, isn’t it? Myself, I wouldn’t try to euphemise them as cadets or scouts or whatever. They were a function of an evil genocidal state trying to turn its young men into murderous robots.

[Farsight]

I'm sure this has come up before on here, but it is still interesting.
Apparently dart firing air guns -" Bolzenbusche" have been used for short range target competition from the 1500s.
Mozart and his family were, supposedly , keen airgunners . There still exist examples of the painted targets, some quite risque.
It seems that most of the extant examples of the guns are bellows- type. No doubt much evidence of antique airgun shooting would have been destroyed during the war but I should think it highly likely that some ingenious German craftsman would have created a bell target at some time , and would not be surprised if some evidence exists somewhere !

[ptdunk]

The Hitler Youth thing is a judgement call, isn’t it? Myself, I wouldn’t try to euphemise them as cadets or scouts or whatever. They were a function of an evil genocidal state trying to turn its young men into murderous robots.

I think you are right, and to be honest I don’t even want to say the words ‘Hitler Youth’ in any of my videos.
I think ‘German military trainer’ will have to suffice. Luckily my ‘33 is the senior version so maybe no need to mention it.

Cheers,
Matt

[ptdunk]

I'm sure this has come up before on here, but it is still interesting.
Apparently dart firing air guns -" Bolzenbusche" have been used for short range target competition from the 1500s.
Mozart and his family were, supposedly , keen airgunners . There still exist examples of the painted targets, some quite risque.
It seems that most of the extant examples of the guns are bellows- type. No doubt much evidence of antique airgun shooting would have been destroyed during the war but I should think it highly likely that some ingenious German craftsman would have created a bell target at some time , and would not be surprised if some evidence exists somewhere !

Hi,
Yes, we have chatted about this before in general but not for this specific time frame (1900-1914) and I wondered if there were any accounts for this period of airgun shooting in Germany. Loads of records of bell target in U.K. from this time.

There are bell targets for sale in my 1902-03 Oscar Will catalogue, along with some of the last examples of Bolzenbusche.

[IMG][/IMG]

https://www.vintageairgunsgallery.co...ab49da218b.jpg

It does say the Bell target is ‘suitable for flobert and air rifles’ so they must have done a bit of bell…. Interesting.

Just need to find some records or accounts of competitions at the time.
I’m in communication with the arms expert from the Zella Mehlis museum, I’ll see if he knows anything.

Cheers,
Matt

[Geezer]

Hi,
Yes, we have chatted about this before in general but not for this specific time frame (1900-1914) and I wondered if there were any accounts for this period of airgun shooting in Germany. Loads of records of bell target in U.K. from this time.

There are bell targets for sale in my 1902-03 Oscar Will catalogue, along with some of the last examples of Bolzenbusche.

[IMG][/IMG]

https://www.vintageairgunsgallery.co...ab49da218b.jpg

It does say the Bell target is ‘suitable for flobert and air rifles’ so they must have done a bit of bell…. Interesting.

Just need to find some records or accounts of competitions at the time.
I’m in communication with the arms expert from the Zella Mehlis museum, I’ll see if he knows anything.

Cheers,
Matt

Good spot. That is interesting. Do tell us more if/when he reverts to you.