Phoenix Hy-Score -Early -Late

[45flint]

Couldn’t resist another Phoenix. Have a early cased one but this was a late style with dovetails and improved site. Just about mint and all the accessories. The higher sight was necessary for the sight picture to clear the fake silencer. Note my front sight is a higher blade. The last ones had a screw on front sight block. These are just really rare in the US.

[45flint]

The Mark 2 with the higher sights makes the use of the “silencer” much better, a real improvement. The sight picture is now clear with its use. I like the forward weight. Also grabbing it as a cocking aid makes cocking easier, to me it’s real purpose. It does change the tone of the discharge to one a little less disturbing? Just lowers the tone? FPS is still 390 with Hobbies, nothing to write home about. This will be my shooter. Kind of a hoot really. Lol just in time for the new Bond film!

[Garvin]

The Mark 2 with the higher sights makes the use of the “silencer” much better, a real improvement. The sight picture is now clear with its use. I like the forward weight. Also grabbing it as a cocking aid makes cocking easier, to me it’s real purpose. It does change the tone of the discharge to one a little less disturbing? Just lowers the tone? FPS is still 390 with Hobbies, nothing to write home about. This will be my shooter. Kind of a hoot really. Lol just in time for the new Bond film!

But the earlier pistol looks better IMO. The first sight may be basic but it's more in proportion to the rest of the pistol. Seeing them side by side helps make this clear.

[Geezer]

But the earlier pistol looks better IMO. The first sight may be basic but it's more in proportion to the rest of the pistol. Seeing them side by side helps make this clear.

Agreed. And personally I think the slab-sided barrel housing does it no favours, compared to the earlier American ones.

Though the Phonenix multi-barrel + silencer all in a case thing does have an appeal to it.

[Jerry Cornelius]

Wasn’t there some problem with selling these back into the states, something about not having a safety?

Weird that for once the uk had fewer “firearm” regulations than the US. (See also: moderators)

[45flint]

But the earlier pistol looks better IMO. The first sight may be basic but it's more in proportion to the rest of the pistol. Seeing them side by side helps make this clear.

I think what some may not understand is the silencer makes the lower sight useless, your sight picture given the need for the high sight angle with a spring pistol is obscured by the silencer? So yes if you throw away the silencer the lower sight may look nicer? To me the total package of the Mark 2 is pretty compelling. You have a dovetail to fit another sight if you want? As a collector it fun to have both models. Though it’s a possibility the first model will be on my sale table next year? Just a hoot shooting with the “cocking aid”

[45flint]

Wasn’t there some problem with selling these back into the states, something about not having a safety?

Weird that for once the uk had fewer “firearm” regulations than the US. (See also: moderators)

Not having a safety is what took it out of production in the US. Said it was too difficult to comply with new regulations. 1970. Hard to believe 19 years later Phoenix buys the machinery and parts and goes at it again.

[draitzer]

The talk about a safety being required in the US has always bothered me. Was it a proposed regulation ultimately abandoned, or in reality a legal liability concern in our litigious land? How about all the Diana, Webley, HW, Slavia, and other spring pistols with no 'safety' provision that were sold?

Don R.

[Geezer]

The talk about a safety being required in the US has always bothered me. Was it a proposed regulation ultimately abandoned, or in reality a legal liability concern in our litigious land? How about all the Diana, Webley, HW, Slavia, and other spring pistols with no 'safety' provision that were sold?

Don R.

I’m pretty sure it was fear of product liability. As you say, lots of other air guns continued to be imported and even made in the US without safeties after the H-S pistol was discontinued in 1968. Indeed, the Hy-Score brand was used in the 70s to market German Diana 23/25/27 rifles, none of which had a safety.

Maybe (pure speculation) the no safety catch issue was a “cover story”. Perhaps by 1968 they just weren’t selling many pistols and wanted to cut their losses? They did keep all the factory tooling, after all, finally selling it to Marriott-Smith in the late 80s. And would it actually have been that hard to modify the design to include some kind of safety catch?

[45flint]

The talk about a safety being required in the US has always bothered me. Was it a proposed regulation ultimately abandoned, or in reality a legal liability concern in our litigious land? How about all the Diana, Webley, HW, Slavia, and other spring pistols with no 'safety' provision that were sold?

Don R.

Bet it was a product liability issue in US courts? A case went south? Or the lawyers weren’t willing to assume the risk given Crosman pistols had safeties? That can be more powerful than regulations in the US? Foreign manufacturers probably more difficult to sue? But by 1970 CO2 pistols were becoming dominant anyway. Probably couldn’t compete and I’m sure they were more expensive to produce, than a Crosman 150? No reason to go to the further expense of trying to add a safety?

[Geezer]

Bet it was a product liability issue in US courts? A case went south? Or the lawyers weren’t willing to assume the risk given Crosman pistols had safeties? That can be more powerful than regulations in the US? Foreign manufacturers probably more difficult to sue? But by 1970 CO2 pistols were becoming dominant anyway. Probably couldn’t compete and I’m sure they were more expensive to produce, than a Crosman 150? No reason to go to the further expense of trying to add a safety?

You are, I guess, probably right that it was most likely to be a combination of factors. We definitely see an increasing incorporation of manual safety catches in airguns from the 70s onward.

I’d just note that the Crosman 38 remained in production until 1985 (its replacement incorporating a safety catch). If they weren’t that bothered, why should Hy-Score have been so concerned in the late sixties? Unless Crosman judged that a gun whose trigger mechanism was functionally identical to every police service revolver in the US was unlikely to be the victim of successful legal challenge?

[Jerry Cornelius]

Interesting. Product liability may be it. A safety gives a defence lawyer an additional strong question in any ND case. If your product was not so profitable by then you might decide the balance of risk wasn’t worth it any longer.

I am also no sure how easy a safety would be to implement. The nature of the design is such that a trigger block would not be a complete solution (if it ever is).

[cinedux]

I've seen one in Sydney.It had been marked with a Gvt Serial No. and definitely had a safety fixed.Only trouble is,I can't recall how it blocked the darn trigger!Trev Addled