Can anyone solve this problem?

[ccdjg]

Danny has recently put up on the Gallery pictures of the first authenticated example of a Japanese spring air pistol, called the Eagle. https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ols/#post-6840 Everyone who has seen it (including myself) assumed that, although incredibly rare, it was just another example of a pop-out pistol, reminiscent of the old Dolla pistols.






With his characteristic sharp eye, Danny realised there was something not right about the pistol, and with his prompting I had closer look at it, and I agree with him. In fact, I am now completely mystified as to how it could possibly work.

The first problem is that, unlike all other pop-out pistols, the cylinder has an end cap, so how to access the breech and insert a pellet once the gun is cocked? The only answer must be that the end cap is pushed out as the barrel is pushed in to cock the gun.





However, this raises a second problem. Even if the end cap is moved out of the way, there is a nut and bolt across the dead centre of the cylinder, exactly in line with barrel, which would prevent access of a pellet into the breech. Catalogue pictures show that this screw is original to the pistol, and not some later modification. There is also a mysterious screw on top of the cylinder, which would only block access more.












A third complication Is that the spring seen on the front of the barrel does not enter the body of the pistol, unlike with other pop-outs, and so it is extremely short. It is also made of quite thin wire, so it is difficult to see how it could possibly provide any useful power. It is more like the plunger return spring on a Eureka pistol. This suggests that there must be a stronger spring inside the cylinder to provide the power.




So having racked my brains trying to figure out how the gun works and how it could be loaded, I throw the problem open to the forum. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

[Leonardj]

I'll venture a guess.

Perhaps the gun is a muzzle loader.
The mainspring is compressed by pushing in on the push-rod, and once the sear has caught, the return spring returns the push-rod back to it's forward position.
A projectile is then inserted from the muzzle.
If a ball is used for ammunition, it may perhaps use a small spring retainer (similar to some BB guns) to hold the ball from rolling out the muzzle should the gun be pointed downwards.

[Geezer]

I'll venture a guess.

Perhaps the gun is a muzzle loader.
The mainspring is compressed by pushing in on the push-rod, and once the sear has caught, the return spring returns the push-rod back to it's forward position.
A projectile is then inserted from the muzzle.
If a ball is used for ammunition, it may perhaps use a small spring retainer (similar to some BB guns) to hold the ball from rolling out the muzzle should the gun be pointed downwards.

That was my thought too. BB muzzle-loader.

[colin g]

Maybe Pop a bb down the barrel and see if its held by magnet,, Had a few gats that had a magnetized probe..

[ggggr]

A couple of things caught my eye in the adverts. In some of the advert pics, does the gun NOT have the band holding the cylinder to the frame?

Also the calibre No27 3.5
No28 3.0
Im assumming that it in mm?
If so then they wouldnt weigh very much at all.
Also the black thing/ things next to the pellet in the pics, is it / are they bbs?

Does that end cap come back on its own when the gun is cocked or do you have to pull it back?

I was wondering if it is a repeating bb gun? Where you fill a reservoir (similar to the G10) .

The thing is how would you load it with a pellet? as that screw through the cylinder looks right in the middle of the cylinder.

What is also interesting is that picture in the advert to the left of the pistols. What is that that is held in the hand?

[cinedux]

You know,shoots an arrow with a suction head at a tin plate target not far in front of it?

[cringe]

You know,shoots an arrow with a suction head at a tin plate target not far in front of it?

I think as previous this was a toy dart gun

[Jerry Cornelius]

I think as previous this was a toy dart gun

And yet the projectiles (I assume) shown in the adverts are conical slugs and balls. It is a shame we cannot see the barrel end. Could they perhaps just sit in a small recess there?

[DrGunn]

If the barrel is used as a plunger to cock an internal spring and piston, then is it possible the barrel can also be pulled forward a little to reveal a direct loading port?
The pin behind the trigger pin indicates the main sear is to rear in which case the piston must latch a fair way back when cocked. Since the barrel protrusion is relatively short and the outer spring will become coil bound once about 3/4 of the barrel has been pushed in, there is a fair amount of space inside the action unaccounted for. There should be easily enough room for an internal length of barrel which has been milled down to its centre line or similar to enable loading if pulled forward.

[ccdjg]

And yet the projectiles (I assume) shown in the adverts are conical slugs and balls. It is a shame we cannot see the barrel end. Could they perhaps just sit in a small recess there?

Yes, I think it is pretty clear that it was intended for standard airgun ammunition.

I have had a go at translating the Japanese text of the various catalogue pages, using Google Lens on my Pixel 3a phone. The app is amazing but struggled a bit, as the Japanese text goes every-which-way over the pages. I had to screen off the pages in sections. You didn’t have to tell the app what language it was, as it worked it out for itself. I was amazed that the phone could read the Japanese characters even from the somewhat blurred images I had. So just point and press, and the translation was pretty much instantaneous.

I must admit that the resultant translations were a bit hit and miss, as many Japanese words seemed to have alternative meanings according to context, and the app couldn’t make its mind up consistently about them. I found that it was best to do the translation 2 or 3 times and take what seemed to be the most appropriate words. (As an example of how variable a Japanese phrase can be on translation, one part of a page threw up the phrase ‘mobile phone’, which is pretty amazing for a 1930’s advert! However, it didn’t come up again when I repeated the exercise).

It turned out that the text of the catalogue pages was not very informative, and was mainly advertising hype. Nowhere did it say how the pistol was cocked and loaded. This was the gist of it:

The Eagle-bird Pistol
This gun is made entirely of metal, and although it is a pistol only 30cm long, it has the same power as larger guns and it is convenient for carrying in the pocket. It is very popular among young people
No 27. Black lacquered: 3.50
No. 28 Nickelled 3.00
Available with fine leather holster.
Make sure of the actual EAGLE trademark. This product is made entirely of metal. Since it surpasses the shape of other air guns and is graceful and inexpensive, it is superior to imported goods, so it has been exported overseas regardless of home demand since it was introduced.

This product is convenient for carrying around in the pocket. It is convenient for both large and small children to take out.


Uses standard air gun ammunition, including BB’s.

The strange item that appeared on the same page as the pistol turned out to be just a pencil-shaped torch.


I suppose the pistol could have been a muzzle loader like most people suggest, but it would have needed a push-rod of some sort when using the conical slugs pictured, and there is no indication of one of these in any of the ads. Another possibility for loading that occurred to me was that it could have a detachable inner sleeve barrel, like for example the Koma LDP3. I have simulated a picture to show how it might have worked:




This is the Koma:

[Graemevw]

Best I, and translater app, can do

[Graemevw]

key press test

[Graemevw]

[Graemevw]

Some interesting translating going on in there 😂

[ccdjg]

Some interesting translating going on in there 😂

Yes, so it seems the Japanese had invented the mobile phone by 1930.