A mystery pistol masterpiece of design - but who made it?

[Garvin]

Beautiful! Is it a Lincoln Jeffries?

[Epicyclic]

There are design elements that bring certain makers to mind as mentioned by some above.
I am guessing Greener as this one seems to be an imaginative, incorporative, and comprehensive re- think with engineering flair.

[ggggr]

It may not be the best looking thing, but it looks like someone has sat down with the Tell etc and really thought about things. If that is a home made pistol, it was made by someone with a lot of skill and also a bit of sense. It looks like they have been trying to engineer faults out and use less parts if possible. That cocking arm is a good idea and looks well made. The whole end of the gun with the loading tap looks really well made.

I think the thing that lets it down from a practical side is a direct trigger to the piston.
What bore is the cylinder?
Also (if it is not too much trouble, another pic would be good) is the piston washer held on by a screw or is the washer put on the piston head and the head screwed into the piston body?

[Jerry Cornelius]

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I think the thing that lets it down from a practical side is a direct trigger to the piston.

That and the cocking arm (albeit backwards) put me in mind of the Haenel 28.

I assume we know this is british because of thread sizes or some such?

[urx]

A very interesting piece you have there.
Really glad you rescued it from that garage.

[trajectory]

Concentric barrelled pistols have always interested me, not too sure exactly why but maybe it's because they are so different from the more commonly encountered over lever or break barrel designs that you see more frequently. Undoubtedly there are design issues with them that have been resolved in various ways throughout their evolution & some were better than others but this example is very interesting as it shows both a good understanding of the issues that the design inherrantly has ss well as demonstrating well engineered solutions. As to who might have made it, well I can only think of those already mentioned like Clarke, AABrown etc but with a possible dating ti the inter war years I'd like to think it might have been a design BSA were contemplating putting into production at some point. There again it looks a bit Ackvoke'ish, albeit a well engineered one, maybe a for runner of it that was altered a fair bit for post war production with the materials shortages / tooling shortages. It will be interesting to hear who it might be attributable to.
Still strikes me as odd that BSA never put an air pistol into production until so late on.

[micky2]

Hi John, what a great find and a very well engineered pistol. it reminds me of a rifle that came up at auction a few years ago, which if memory serves me well it had similar features. and was stamped with Westley Richards. so l am going for them.

[ccdjg]

I think the thing that lets it down from a practical side is a direct trigger to the piston.
What bore is the cylinder?
Also (if it is not too much trouble, another pic would be good) is the piston washer held on by a screw or is the washer put on the piston head and the head screwed into the piston body?

Thanks guy.

The trigger is actually very good for some reason. Far better than say the Warrior, which also has a one-piece trigger/sear.

The cylinder bore is about 0.88" (22mm) (the threaded end makes exact measurement difficult). More interesting. the external diameter is 1.00" exactly, which is one of the reasons I am convinced that this is a British-made pistol.

Here are some pics of the piston head. It is machined from a single piece of steel and the leather washer appears be a band forced over the head into a groove. (The leather is crumbling so I did not want to try to remove it). The two holes on the face of the piston head are not for screws and are blind, and must be just for removing the head with a pin spanner.

[Garvin]

Silly me! I've just realised why this pistol looks so familiar - it turned up on the old now-disappeared airgun forum. A reminder of why it's so important to back up all information on old airguns if it's in digital form, so when experts like ccdjg aren't here anymore to update their reference books, the information must survive for future generations...

[Garvin]

Seeing it again, there's no way it could be a fake, surely. Not with so many innovations packed in like that. An amateur may come up with one, or even two, but not that many.

PS glad you bought it, John and thanks for sharing those fascinating insights!

[Epicyclic]

This is a fabulous pistol. The more I study the photos, read the comments from other members and have a think about it, the better it gets!
The trigger design could be improved by way of an independent sear and the trigger-guard made thicker and sculpted as it would no longer be employed as a spring.
I'd also angle and re-style the grip, although it does need to be relatively upright to perform its arc-forming cocking stroke. Similar in orientation to the grip- cocking designs mentioned in previous posts.

Back to what it is though, being the theme of this thread discussion- not how it could be 'developed'!...

You mention John, the possibility that the inscription could be faked in order to confer enhanced value.
In the absence of documentation this has to be considered.
The faker is putting it out there to challenge the records the motive being profiteering, mischief-making, or both.
Enhanced value would be maximised by using illustrious names such as Westley Richards, Cogswell and Harrison and Greener. I use these examples as being widely known makers of good shotguns who have had minor and short-lived but eclectic, high-end dabblings with airguns.
A speculator at auction or wherever, not expert in either field would nonetheless know these makers and may feel comfortable in paying more.
Would greater value be conferred by Frank Clarke, BSA, LJ et al?...
Am I correct in believing that BSA made some weird and wonderful prototypes, or pieces that are widely acknowledged to be from the factory and left them un-marked? as did Webbo?...would they annoint some prototypes and not others? An unanswerable question...Maybe workers would nab a prototype and stamp it at home in which case it would be the real deal but not 'sanctioned' by their employers.
Was it standard factory practice to have their identity on tested products destined for market only, not something under test that may or had failed?
Would prototypes be made with the intention of destroying them or putting them un-marked in a locked room if they did not make the grade- maybe unearthed years later to be sold, as Webley did back-along

A forensic examination of the lettering is helpful.

Oh dear!...That's got me thinking about your LP52 Danny...

[DrGunn]

Great to see that cleaned up, it’s come up very nicely!
There are some fascinating and very novel design features in that pistol and your photos show them very clearly. I particularly like the breach design, it looks very intricate but on closer inspection probably isn’t as difficult to make as it first appears - an ingenious bit of design.

It has undoubtedly been designed and made by a very competent engineer with a good understanding of air guns and an inventive mind. The engineering is not beyond the ability of a competent amateur machinist but the design details suggests someone with a good understanding of firearm mass production. This would seem consistent with it being a prototype from one of the established manufacturers.