Bellows rifle service report pt1 and stumbling block

[ptdunk]

I recently acquired a really nice Kuchenreuter bellows rifle, C.1850 which I will do a full report on later.....but in the meantime I need some advice...

Although it cocks & shoots I have a feeling the bellows are leaking, it fires with a loud crack and is quite low power. The springs and metalwork are all in good condition so I would like it to be performing to it's full potential, but for the life of me I can’t get the bellows out!

I repaired a damaged breech seal, taking the massive barrel off was scary as the stock is long and spindly and runs the full length of the barrel. All good though and with the barrel back on the breech seals nicely.

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This gun has two V springs, one at the top and one at the bottom. As you rotate the cocking spindle clockwise a chain at the rear pulls the bottom half of the bellows down, compressing the lower spring, and at the same time a large connecting bar rotates upward and pushes the top half of the bellows upwards, compressing the upper V spring.

It's a genius idea, it would have taken me ages to suss it out but thankfully ccdjg sent me a Bellows repair article that made reference to a double spring example, and Arne Hoff had a helpful drawing which shows it perfectly.

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Having taken all the backplates off I disconnecting the cocking spindle from the chain, and removed the retaining screw & notched plate. All these bolts are facing backwards and appear to be arranged so they can be removed from the back. Here you can see the little retaining pin connecting the chain to the lower half of the bellows:

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To disconnect the bar that pushes the upper half of the bellows up I compressed the upper V spring with a sash clamp, wedged it, popped the bar out from the socket in the bellows plate, then clamped it again, removed the wegdge and gently released the V spring:

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Everything is mounted in a steel plate frame, which should slide out of the back of the stock, bringing the bellows, V springs and long sear with it.
This from the repair article of a single spring example:

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I just can't work out hew to get the spindle out, the square end sticks out of the side of the wooden stock so I cant begin to slide the steel frame out.

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Brief video clip showing the problem, and also showing the double springs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgW-QIlqhBk


I wondered if the spindle had a separate core with the square end but I tried to tap it out to no avail, and also tried to unscrew it (both ends have a square section you can get a spanner around) but I think it's one piece. Has anyone ever taken one of these apart? I can't work it out. Spindle from the repair article:

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I did try simply pulling the bellows out between the two V springs but it won't budge, and that could prove a nightmare to put back in.

At the moment the only thing I can think of is to crack a small corner of the stock, in a place that's hidden by the side plate, (that area is already damaged, but I have the pieces to glue back together) this would allow the steel frame and protruding spindle to slide backwards and give me access to the bellows.

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Obviously this is not correct and there was a way it came out originally.
I've loosened the side plate mounted inside with the sear assembly on it but the spindle stops it sliding out.


There was some damage to the wood under the bottom plate, shown above, I think it is where two tiny prongs of the lower V spring poke out of the bottom steel plate and have pushed the wood out. Easily repairable but if the upper V spring is doing the same and biting into the stock it may be very difficult to slide the frame out. I don't think it has been fully dismantled before.

If anyone has the slightest idea about getting these apart I would be very grateful, otherwise I'm going to have to separate a corner from the back of the stock.
I haven't done anything irreversible, I could just put it back together as is but I am very keen to get these bellows serviced.

The set trigger is lovely, looks like the work of a clockmaker:

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Little vid of the trigger action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_7pga4nY38


Cheers,
Matt

[draitzer]

Qualifying note: this may not apply in your case, but...Many years ago, a friend of mine tackled replacement of the leather on a bellows gun. In his case, the hollow butt was actually split longitudinally for original installation of the mechanism and glued together (the seam was barely detectable). He managed to pry that joint apart and open the back end for removal of the innards. I happened to visit his shop at the point he'd propped the thing open a couple inches, amazingly without breaking the wood.
From the photos, yours looks more complex, but it could be worthwhile to look for any place that has a seam that would allow spreading of the butt end wide enough to let the axle pass by.

Best of luck on your audacious project!

Don R.

[JB101]

From looking at your pictures and the video that the centre shaft is drifted out to the left , could be that it’s been ‘repaired’ previously and locktite or similar used ? Or just seized.
I would suggest some form of release agent such as plus gaz or similar (heat) and then try with a dead blow hammer / punch.
The screws that you removed from the ‘internal side plate’ look out of character with the piece , were they slotted screws?

ATB
James

[ptdunk]

Qualifying note: this may not apply in your case, but...Many years ago, a friend of mine tackled replacement of the leather on a bellows gun. In his case, the hollow butt was actually split longitudinally for original installation of the mechanism and glued together (the seam was barely detectable). He managed to pry that joint apart and open the back end for removal of the innards. I happened to visit his shop at the point he'd propped the thing open a couple inches, amazingly without breaking the wood.
From the photos, yours looks more complex, but it could be worthwhile to look for any place that has a seam that would allow spreading of the butt end wide enough to let the axle pass by.

Best of luck on your audacious project!

Don R.

Hi Don,
I did check to see if I could see a join but I’ll have another look, cheers

From looking at your pictures and the video that the centre shaft is drifted out to the left , could be that it’s been ‘repaired’ previously and locktite or similar used ? Or just seized.
I would suggest some form of release agent such as plus gaz or similar (heat) and then try with a dead blow hammer / punch.
The screws that you removed from the ‘internal side plate’ look out of character with the piece , were they slotted screws?

ATB
James

Hi,
The centre shaft isn’t drifted, it’s asymmetrical. The smaller square end has a notched disc on it which I removed, the other side is the end the crank goes on and the whole thing appears solid.
I did try Plusgas, heat and some taps with a suitable pin punch but to no avail.

The screws from the side plate come in from the outer plate. All seem original, all screws are different sizes and all are slotted.

Cheers

[wild boar]

could all the metalwork slise out backwards from the wooden stock - could be held with a screw or two , perhaps near the front eg, triger guard etc. ?

[Garvin]

Extraordinary project Matt.

Looking at the video of you wiggling the spindle, is there not a continuation of the flat bar you were wiggling that goes through the centre of the spindle/axle that would stop it sliding out to the left? Visible at 019 seconds.

[ptdunk]

could all the metalwork slise out backwards from the wooden stock - could be held with a screw or two , perhaps near the front eg, triger guard etc. ?

Hi,
that's what I'm hoping, but the spindle sticking out of the side of the stock would stop it sliding back.
There is a block you can see in the trigger cavity, it's held in with a large pin and seems to be attached to the end of the bellows. apart from that I cant find any other fixings holding the mechanism in place.

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Extraordinary project Matt.

Looking at the video of you wiggling the spindle, is there not a continuation of the flat bar you were wiggling that goes through the centre of the spindle/axle that would stop it sliding out to the left? Visible at 019 seconds.

Hi Danny,
I think you may be on to something!

I thought the spindle had two protrusions sticking out of it's centre, one at the bottom that the chain attached to, and one at the top that the flat bar attached to.

Now that you mention it it looks like it's one bar that goes through the middle of the spindle, with the bar and chain attached on either side. If that's the case then detatching either the chain or bar would allow that to be removed and the spindle slid out.

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I have a feeling that the sides that the bolts unscrew from are on the more inaccessible side, but I will have a look.

Can't check till Monday now but that's the best lead so far!

Many thanks,

Matt

[Binners]

Matt, I am of no use whatsoever, but must compliment you on the great photos.

[ptdunk]

Matt, I am of no use whatsoever, but must compliment you on the great photos.

Cheers Peter.