EM-GE vs Diana Model 5 - A inside look

[45flint]

Been fun comparing two Prewar German air pistols that were in direct competition in the 1930s-40’s. Diana was first out of the gate in 1931 and was very well made and successful. I’m sure EM-GE brought out its Herkules to directly compete. A look inside both this week seems to confirm to me that the name Herkules was to differentiate on power. Below is a look into each. The Diana was easily disassembled given little preload. You can see in the Herkules a major difference in spring length. Actually had to use my spring compressor to get it back together given the much more lengthy preload. Also pistons are totally different. The Diana is milled steel. The Herkules is a more complex ribbed, made from multiple pieces. Many here will probably know more if this was for weight reduction of the piston or cheaper than milling? I am assuming weight reduction to increase power? Bottom line is the Herkules was significantly more powerful but the Diana more refined. With no Chrony, power may not have meant anything back then. Made the wrong bet maybe on multiple counts? But wrong bets make for interesting collecting.

[Garvin]

Fascinating Steve, thank you!

[45flint]

After total disassembly, cleaning and lubing I’m getting 3.5 FPE.

[ccdjg]

Great to have a look inside these oldies Steve. I always wondered if the Herkules had a piston with a welded cocking shoulder like the Diana 5, or if it had the more conventional piston design, but never felt inclined to dismantle mine (I anticipated a massive spring preload problem when re-assembling). Now I know.

As you say, it seems that the Herkules must have been was made with increased power in mind. What puzzles me though is the description in the 1937 Geco catalogue (which also advertises the Diana 5). It says of the Herkules "Strongly built and highly durable, for example when used in shooting games. Precise, attractive form, easy cocking, fully adjustable front sight. Available in various calibres."

Easy cocking??

[45flint]

The more I look at it I think the EM-GE piston probably is more of a cost savings given it looks be forged from individual components rather than milled? Curious if these types of pistons are common? Too much of a rookie to know.

[SRV1]

A great article well presented with clear photographs. I think these pistols were the most pleasing to the eye. Would love to own one, seems difficult to find either?

A slight resemblance to the famous Luger? Intentional or myth?

Kind regards.

[costalotpanther]

Very interesting.
Great photos.
More please

[ggggr]

The more I look at it I think the EM-GE piston probably is more of a cost savings given it looks be forged from individual components rather than milled? Curious if these types of pistons are common? Too much of a rookie to know.

From memory the piston on the Zenit pistol is similar.
In the pic I guess you have dropped the sear of the Modell 5 down and put the spring between it and the trigger just to show it better?

Ive recently bought a Diana Modell 5 off here, with the intention of giving it to my Nephew to go with the Haenel 26 I do find the piston on that a bit crude and think the Slavia ZVP is better. The Chinese Westlake/S2 Etc seems to be a direct copy of the Diana and Im always surprised that the Dianas get praised and the S2 gets slagged off. BUT i can never really understand people slagging off a Webley Hawk Mk3 and praising a Vulcan, which is more or less the same gun with a bigger diameter clylinder.

Ive never had a Herkules------and dont expect I could afford one. Probably the sort of gun I'd like to try but not actually own.

Its odd. I find both the Diana Modell 5 and the Haenel 28 quite well made/ solid but the 28 is a pain to cock and im not overly taken with the sear idea. Id much rather shoot with a Webley pistol. They are much more fun.

[45flint]

From memory the piston on the Zenit pistol is similar.
In the pic I guess you have dropped the sear of the Modell 5 down and put the spring between it and the trigger just to show it better?

Ive recently bought a Diana Modell 5 off here, with the intention of giving it to my Nephew to go with the Haenel 26 I do find the piston on that a bit crude and think the Slavia ZVP is better. The Chinese Westlake/S2 Etc seems to be a direct copy of the Diana and Im always surprised that the Dianas get praised and the S2 gets slagged off. BUT i can never really understand people slagging off a Webley Hawk Mk3 and praising a Vulcan, which is more or less the same gun with a bigger diameter clylinder.

Ive never had a Herkules------and dont expect I could afford one. Probably the sort of gun I'd like to try but not actually own.

Its odd. I find both the Diana Modell 5 and the Haenel 28 quite well made/ solid but the 28 is a pain to cock and im not overly taken with the sear idea. Id much rather shoot with a Webley pistol. They are much more fun.

Irony of engineering is hard to believe but my Webley Straightgrip Senior is the more powerful pistol and easily more accurate. I believe straight grip seniors are the most powerful of the milled Webleys?

[Garvin]

Interesting to see the Webley next to the EM-GE, in view of where their respective designers' nations were heading. I have to say, putting my patriotic pride completely to one side (), that the Senior is in another league, elegance-wise.

Superb examples both, Steve.