Cheap and tawdry then, valuable collectables now.

[ggggr]

One very low-end pistol I would happily pay quite a bit for is this Japanese Eagle:









Why? Well, firstly it is the only Japanese spring air pistol currently known. Secondly, I have puzzled over this pistol for a long time, and I just cannot figure out how it works, or even loads, and I would love to get my hands on one to take apart.

It is not just simple pop-out, as it seems at first sight. More pics in the Gallery here: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ols/#post-6840. In fact I willingly offer a nice chrome vintage Gat to anyone who can provide a plausible explanation as to how it works, to my full satisfaction.

I've got 2 suggestions John, apart from finding someone who can translate.

First up is that it just loads from the muzzle, but if you were using pellets you would need a rod to push them down. I was thinking maybe that the pellet shown in the pic is a red herring?
Second idea is that when you cock the gun, that end cap at the back slides out to enable you to load. There doesnt seem to be any wear on the sides, which you would expect if someone were to operate something like that manually?
With the sliding end cap idea, that would probably make it a bb repeater, something like the Webley Stinger--------but there is no clue to it being a repeater?
Just thinking----was the Stinger bought in? and was it ever sold under another name? The Stinger is fairly crap but I guess that will be a collectable one day. I gave mine away.

[ccdjg]

I should have mentioned that this same problem was discussed in a thread almost a couple of years back, and various options were put forward then, but none very convincing. https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...ighlight=Eagle

The most popular suggestion was that it was muzzle loaded. However, the gun was advertised as using conical as well as BB pellets, and would have needed a ramrod, but no such thing is mentioned in any of the adverts.

Guy, It certainly is not a repeater. If the end cap slid out, then somehow the means by which it is attached to the barrel would have to avoid the cross screw in the process. The same cross screw causes a problem for any sort of loading into the barrel.
(Incidentally the Stinger appears to have been made by Webley according to literature, and the gun itself is marked 'Made in England'. This does not exclude the possibility of course that Webley bought in some or all of the components and assembled it themselves.)

[Powderfinger]

It happens a lot in most fields of collecting. Items that were once cheaply eventually come to be sought after. Well-made items tend to be expensive purchases when new. They get bought by people who look after them and even when they enter the used market, buyers realise that this is a well-made item worth preserving. Cheaply made items get used hard and put away wet. When they break, they are discarded. They command little interest in the second-hand market.
Eventually, there are lots of the expensively made items available when they reach an age to be collected. There are few of the cheaply made items left but even they are memories of people's youth or a nostalgic past. Collectors get keen on finding the cheaply made items.
In shooting, I see it with people being keen to collect Crosmans or Daisys that were always regard as inferior in the the UK to British or German guns but now attract collector interest.
In motorbikes, I take an interest in an old brand of cheap motorbike but they are harder to find in good condition than the prestige brands that have higher survival rates.

[Garvin]

I should have mentioned that this same problem was discussed in a thread almost a couple of years back, and various options were put forward then, but none very convincing. https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...ighlight=Eagle

The most popular suggestion was that it was muzzle loaded. However, the gun was advertised as using conical as well as BB pellets, and would have needed a ramrod, but no such thing is mentioned in any of the adverts.

Guy, It certainly is not a repeater. If the end cap slid out, then somehow the means by which it is attached to the barrel would have to avoid the cross screw in the process. The same cross screw causes a problem for any sort of loading into the barrel.
(Incidentally the Stinger appears to have been made by Webley according to literature, and the gun itself is marked 'Made in England'. This does not exclude the possibility of course that Webley bought in some or all of the components and assembled it themselves.)

A possible though admittedly unsatisfactory solution is that the vertical screw in the rear of the cylinder unscrews to reveal some sort of channel reservoir for the ball ammo that angles at 45 degrees (or so) down into the barrel (ie. above the crossbolt).

If instead you prefer to use the single shot function you pull off the (push fit/bayonet) rear plug and insert the pellet downwards into the top of the ball channel (it's open at the back). A short flexible bit of wire fixed to the inside top of the rear plug advances the pellet beyond the slight constriction that holds balls in a queue (to be release one at a time with a sharp tap on a firm surface).

If you're shooting ball, you rotate the plug so the wire is in the cavity under the crossbolt. There's a seal around the plug...

[ccdjg]

Interesting speculations, but I guess that we will never know for sure until the current owner, or a previous one, comes up with the goods. So my chrome Gat stays with me for now. Sorry to disappoint you Danny, as I know how big a fan you are of Gats!

[ccdjg]

It happens a lot in most fields of collecting. Items that were once cheaply eventually come to be sought after. Well-made items tend to be expensive purchases when new. They get bought by people who look after them and even when they enter the used market, buyers realise that this is a well-made item worth preserving. Cheaply made items get used hard and put away wet. When they break, they are discarded. They command little interest in the second-hand market.
Eventually, there are lots of the expensively made items available when they reach an age to be collected. There are few of the cheaply made items left but even they are memories of people's youth or a nostalgic past. Collectors get keen on finding the cheaply made items.
In shooting, I see it with people being keen to collect Crosmans or Daisys that were always regard as inferior in the the UK to British or German guns but now attract collector interest.
In motorbikes, I take an interest in an old brand of cheap motorbike but they are harder to find in good condition than the prestige brands that have higher survival rates.

Very true. The cheaper something is, the more likely it is to be abused and thrown away, so in later years the rarer and more expensive it becomes. Nothing highlights this more in our hobby than old airgun and pellet boxes.

[Abasmajor]

Very true. The cheaper something is, the more likely it is to be abused and thrown away, so in later years the rarer and more expensive it becomes. Nothing highlights this more in our hobby than old airgun and pellet boxes.

Pre-war Webley oil cans are an example of an old item that was considered a consumable and usually discarded when empty.. These were not refillable and unlike the pellet tins could not be used to store screws and nails etc. The new cost was shillings, but now they fetch hundreds of pounds.

Brian

[Garvin]

Interesting speculations, but I guess that we will never know for sure until the current owner, or a previous one, comes up with the goods. So my chrome Gat stays with me for now. Sorry to disappoint you Danny, as I know how big a fan you are of Gats!

Oh no! All the thought that went into it too, driven by the hope that shiny Gat might be mine.

[junglie]

I think we also have to add sentimental value into what might motivate a collector. There is no doubt the Gat started a lot of us on the airgun obsession.

Lol nearly put me off airguns for life, wouldn't give £1.50 for one boxed or not......

[ccdjg]

Lol nearly put me off airguns for life, wouldn't give £1.50 for one boxed or not......

It's an age thing. If you were 11 years old and had the chance to replace your forked stick/inner tube rubber catapult with a Gat you would have thought that all your Christmases had come in one. You would then in later life view the Gat through rose-tinted glasses. On the other hand, if you were a 16 year old with a bit of independent income and invested in a Gat as an introduction to serious shooting, then I can see where you are coming from.

[silva]

Wanting a gatgun was the theme of my preteen years.