Check out this unusual Westley Richards

[micky2]

Thanks John for your continued interest and getting John Atkins input. As the owner of a unique pistol you always tend to want to make it more than it probably is. I did last month see a picture from a Holts auction where they said the barrel was 10 inches, so this is not a total surprise. I understand John A’s explanation for the front sight and it certainly is logical. I do have some observations about the front sight rusting off, I will explain later. I have made other observations that I think are interesting and useful. I will follow up a little later because it will involve some close up pictures and what will probably end up being a thesis on this pistol lol! I have really got my money’s worth out of this purchase. Will be back.

From American baseball great Yogi Berra “Its never over till its over”

I look forward latest observations.

[45flint]

Well here we go, I am known for over thinking things so get ready for a bit of a journey. This will be the case for the sights and grips on this pistol being original to Westley Richards. I don’t think I have to make much of a case for the grips to be original and I think most would agree. Their construction and materials are identical to the vulcanite grips we see but with unique logo and checkering. Once you accept the grips are original I think you have to start thinking this pistol was possibly an experiment in a transition to the final form? If the grips are an experiment it certainly adds to the possibility that the front sight could be experimental as well? They were at this time changing the sighting system to be adjustable and this sight could be adjusted.

John Atkins makes the case that the front sight is a replacement for a front sight that has rusted off, he has seen this. I wish I could see examples. That is a totally logical explanation and could very well be correct but the following I think gives me pause.

1. The sights on this gun are very pitted and look to be contemporary to the pistol. With a 100 year old pistol it is certainly possible that the original front sight rusted off and then the new sight rusted just as much as the original pistol but that is starting to seem a bit of a stretch. How long would it take for a front sight to rust off? You would think the newer sight would be in better shape than the pistol? Granted the refinishing and rebluing makes this comparison more difficult but in the pictures you will see my point.

2. The rear sight was possibly made to go with the front sight in question. I have looked at numerous pictures of the first series pistols with dovetail sights and this pistol seems to have the highest rear sight I have seen. Maybe it had to be to align with the position of the front sight out on the tip of the barrel? (See my diagram) This is interesting in itself but also significant in that looking at the rear sight it also seems to be period to the pistol given its pitting. See pics. If you believe the rear sight is original, the alignment may say the front sight is original as well. Yes both could be replacements but the rear sight pitting is identical to the pistol? (Can those that have a dovetail rear sight give me a measurement of the height of theirs.)

3. Looking closely at the front sight we are expected to believe that this was a replacement. But look at it closely it is very finely made. The collar has a dovetail to let the bead be driven to drift the front sight for windage. The sight has a very nice complicated machined form. Could it be a competent gunsmith making a repair or more likely a high end gun maker like Westley Richards? I really think the later is more plausible, it is just so refined.

4. Lastly Westley Richards in their advertisement for this pistol states “any pattern of back or foresight can be supplied to ordered”. They obviously state they have the capability and willingness to make this.


Taller rear sight


Similar pitting on sight and pistol


Similar pitting on sight and pistol


Similar pitting


Similar pitting - elegant form


Similar pitting - elegant form


Rear sight had to be taller?

[ccdjg]

I can't fault your logic Steve, and you make some good points.

Cheers,
John

[micky2]

yes l would also go along with your theory, due to the pitting being the same allover. and that WR did offer a choice of other sights. it must have been stored somewhere in very damp/wet conditions to get that amount of pitting. but still a nice pistol to have.

[45flint]

Had a picture sent to me of another HP with fixed rear sight and you can see clearly the large height differential required to align with my front sight in question. To say the front sight was a replacement you would have to come to the conclusion that this rear sight was also replaced. Looking closely at it, that just seems very unlikely given its similarity and matching pitting to the rest of the pistol. This may be the strongest evidence because unlike the front sight the pitted surfaces of the rear sight flow right into the pitted surfaces of the pistol body.

Standard sight from another pistol:



My pistol:

[micky2]

Yes the sights must have been fitted at a early stage in it's life if, and maybe from new by WR for what ever reason, we will never know. as for me, pitting neally always tells a true story when it is even all over.

[ccdjg]

Yes the sights must have been fitted at a early stage in it's life if, and maybe from new by WR for what ever reason, we will never know. as for me, pitting neally always tells a true story when it is even all over.

Yes, I agree with Mick on this.

[45flint]

Yes the sights must have been fitted at a early stage in it's life if, and maybe from new by WR for what ever reason, we will never know. as for me, pitting neally always tells a true story when it is even all over.

This is when you wish an antique could talk. lol. If the grips were standard horn I would be more suspect of the sights But the fact that the grips are unique and almost had to be WR made, adds a little further weight to a WR sight theory? But then I own it now and it’s more fun to think my way and no one can prove me wrong as you say. lol Fascinating part of collect!