Check out this unusual Westley Richards

[45flint]

Hard to believe that no one noticed the difference in barrel length, but then again I didn’t and I have been looking at it for a week!

[ccdjg]

An interesting observation, and there was certainly some known variation in barrel lengths. Your longer barrel gun does seem to fall at the extreme end of known range of lengths, and as such is in a minority.

[Garvin]

More observations for you Steve: In the pic where you show the grips on #45 are fatter, the frame looks slightly thicker plus the breach release lever is straight, not curved.

[45flint]

More observations for you Steve: In the pic where you show the grips on #45 are fatter, the frame looks slightly thicker plus the breach release lever is straight, not curved.

All observations are correct. I really like the straight lever. The paddle at the end of the lever does not interfere at all if you are left handed. Looks cleaner as well. As you predicted I am falling in love with each pistols variations but ironically this is becoming my favorite even if refinished and not very powerful. Just a great feel as you grip. All three of my other WR have identical length barrels.

[45flint]

An interesting observation, and there was certainly some known variation in barrel lengths. Your longer barrel gun does seem to fall at the extreme end of known range of lengths, and as such is in a minority.

Barrel length is exactly 10 inches.

[ccdjg]

Barrel length is exactly 10 inches.

Extremely interesting, as the longest barrel previously recorded was 9.75 inches. So given the deliberately extended barrel, it does look pretty certain that the sight was an original factory addition. Coupled with the exceptional original grip plates, this means IMO that you have a unique WR variant. Congratulations Steve!

[45flint]

Extremely interesting, as the longest barrel previously recorded was 9.75 inches. So given the deliberately extended barrel, it does look pretty certain that the sight was an original factory addition. Coupled with the exceptional original grip plates, this means IMO that you have a unique WR variant. Congratulations Steve!

Thanks for your help along this collecting journey, been fun.

[Dutch]

The incredible craftsmanship of gunsmiths or restaurators at the time (or more recent, but skilled work is quite costly nowadays) makes me wonder, which of the parts were refabricated in the proces of restoring an apparantly quite detereorated pistol. Traces of severe pitting are still visible! The grips are cetrtainly good candidates in such a scenario.

[Garvin]

The incredible craftsmanship of gunsmiths or restaurators at the time (or more recent, but skilled work is quite costly nowadays) makes me wonder, which of the parts were refabricated in the proces of restoring an apparantly quite detereorated pistol. Traces of severe pitting are still visible! The grips are cetrtainly good candidates in such a scenario.

With all due respect, I would have thought those particular grips are the last thing a restorer would come up with.

[45flint]

The incredible craftsmanship of gunsmiths or restaurators at the time (or more recent, but skilled work is quite costly nowadays) makes me wonder, which of the parts were refabricated in the proces of restoring an apparantly quite detereorated pistol. Traces of severe pitting are still visible! The grips are cetrtainly good candidates in such a scenario.

Having examined several WRHP I can say without reservation that the only part added was a new piston seal and my leather breech seal. All the pins have been drilled out and replaced with slightly larger pins given most pins were not intended to be removed. The pistol functions incredibly smoothly. No question the surface was rusted and pitted, I as the new owner very much like the finished product, the gunsmith did it justice and I think had a lot of skill. Ironically I have one WRHP that is just about as new but this restored pistol is my favorite.

[ccdjg]

Extremely interesting, as the longest barrel previously recorded was 9.75 inches. So given the deliberately extended barrel, it does look pretty certain that the sight was an original factory addition. Coupled with the exceptional original grip plates, this means IMO that you have a unique WR variant. Congratulations Steve!

I have now had contact with John Atkins, who has probably handled and documented more examples of the Highest Possible than anyone I know, and on the basis of information that he has provided, unfortunately I have to revise my conclusions about this pistol. John tells me that in his experience all first version pistols had the longer barrel length of 10 inches. A typical example provided by John is shown here:




This means that the 10 inch barrel on Steve’s pistol No. 45 is actually par for the course, and so we cannot assume that the barrel was increased in length by Westley Richards deliberately to accommodate the unusual front sight. John believes that the most likely explanation is that the original front bead sight got rusted off (he has seen examples of this before) and so someone filed it down and fitted the new sight on the protruding barrel.


The unusual grips still remain to be explained however, so the pistol is continues to be an intriguing mystery.

Cheers,
John

[Abasmajor]

I have now had contact with John Atkins, who has probably handled and documented more examples of the Highest Possible than anyone I know, and on the basis of information that he has provided, unfortunately I have to revise my conclusions about this pistol. John tells me that in his experience all first version pistols had the longer barrel length of 10 inches. A typical example provided by John is shown here:




This means that the 10 inch barrel on Steve’s pistol No. 45 is actually par for the course, and so we cannot assume that the barrel was increased in length by Westley Richards deliberately to accommodate the unusual front sight. John believes that the most likely explanation is that the original front bead sight got rusted off (he has seen examples of this before) and so someone filed it down and fitted the new sight on the protruding barrel.


The unusual grips still remain to be explained however, so the pistol is continues to be an intriguing mystery.

Cheers,
John

Thanks for providing the updated information John which at least clarifies things except for the unusual grips.

Brian

[45flint]

I have now had contact with John Atkins, who has probably handled and documented more examples of the Highest Possible than anyone I know, and on the basis of information that he has provided, unfortunately I have to revise my conclusions about this pistol. John tells me that in his experience all first version pistols had the longer barrel length of 10 inches. A typical example provided by John is shown here:




This means that the 10 inch barrel on Steve’s pistol No. 45 is actually par for the course, and so we cannot assume that the barrel was increased in length by Westley Richards deliberately to accommodate the unusual front sight. John believes that the most likely explanation is that the original front bead sight got rusted off (he has seen examples of this before) and so someone filed it down and fitted the new sight on the protruding barrel.


The unusual grips still remain to be explained however, so the pistol is continues to be an intriguing mystery.

Cheers,
John

Thanks John for your continued interest and getting John Atkins input. As the owner of a unique pistol you always tend to want to make it more than it probably is. I did last month see a picture from a Holts auction where they said the barrel was 10 inches, so this is not a total surprise. I understand John A’s explanation for the front sight and it certainly is logical. I do have some observations about the front sight rusting off, I will explain later. I have made other observations that I think are interesting and useful. I will follow up a little later because it will involve some close up pictures and what will probably end up being a thesis on this pistol lol! I have really got my money’s worth out of this purchase. Will be back.

From American baseball great Yogi Berra “Its never over till its over”

[micky2]

Thanks John for your continued interest and getting John Atkins input. As the owner of a unique pistol you always tend to want to make it more than it probably is. I did last month see a picture from a Holts auction where they said the barrel was 10 inches, so this is not a total surprise. I understand John A’s explanation for the front sight and it certainly is logical. I do have some observations about the front sight rusting off, I will explain later. I have made other observations that I think are interesting and useful. I will follow up a little later because it will involve some close up pictures and what will probably end up being a thesis on this pistol lol! I have really got my money’s worth out of this purchase. Will be back.

From American baseball great Yogi Berra “Its never over till its over”

I look forward latest observations.

[45flint]

Well here we go, I am known for over thinking things so get ready for a bit of a journey. This will be the case for the sights and grips on this pistol being original to Westley Richards. I don’t think I have to make much of a case for the grips to be original and I think most would agree. Their construction and materials are identical to the vulcanite grips we see but with unique logo and checkering. Once you accept the grips are original I think you have to start thinking this pistol was possibly an experiment in a transition to the final form? If the grips are an experiment it certainly adds to the possibility that the front sight could be experimental as well? They were at this time changing the sighting system to be adjustable and this sight could be adjusted.

John Atkins makes the case that the front sight is a replacement for a front sight that has rusted off, he has seen this. I wish I could see examples. That is a totally logical explanation and could very well be correct but the following I think gives me pause.

1. The sights on this gun are very pitted and look to be contemporary to the pistol. With a 100 year old pistol it is certainly possible that the original front sight rusted off and then the new sight rusted just as much as the original pistol but that is starting to seem a bit of a stretch. How long would it take for a front sight to rust off? You would think the newer sight would be in better shape than the pistol? Granted the refinishing and rebluing makes this comparison more difficult but in the pictures you will see my point.

2. The rear sight was possibly made to go with the front sight in question. I have looked at numerous pictures of the first series pistols with dovetail sights and this pistol seems to have the highest rear sight I have seen. Maybe it had to be to align with the position of the front sight out on the tip of the barrel? (See my diagram) This is interesting in itself but also significant in that looking at the rear sight it also seems to be period to the pistol given its pitting. See pics. If you believe the rear sight is original, the alignment may say the front sight is original as well. Yes both could be replacements but the rear sight pitting is identical to the pistol? (Can those that have a dovetail rear sight give me a measurement of the height of theirs.)

3. Looking closely at the front sight we are expected to believe that this was a replacement. But look at it closely it is very finely made. The collar has a dovetail to let the bead be driven to drift the front sight for windage. The sight has a very nice complicated machined form. Could it be a competent gunsmith making a repair or more likely a high end gun maker like Westley Richards? I really think the later is more plausible, it is just so refined.

4. Lastly Westley Richards in their advertisement for this pistol states “any pattern of back or foresight can be supplied to ordered”. They obviously state they have the capability and willingness to make this.


Taller rear sight


Similar pitting on sight and pistol


Similar pitting on sight and pistol


Similar pitting


Similar pitting - elegant form


Similar pitting - elegant form


Rear sight had to be taller?