Haviland & Gunn pistol

[ccdjg]

Danny has just put up some pictures of a Haviland & Gunn (Morse) pistol from the Beeman collection, which is being auctioned by the Rock Island Co. (https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....tol/#post-8797)

Seeing these pictures reminded me of an amusing story about this gun, which may be apocryphal, but which I believe is true. If anyone can confirm the details l would be very grateful.

Robert Beeman was extremely keen to add one of these pistols to his collection, but for some reason he had never managed to nail one, even though they are not massively rare in the USA. When this particular one came up for auction in the great Myron Kasok airgun auction in 2003, he was determined to get it. So much so, he somehow ended up bidding against himself, and he finally won it at the massive hammer price of $6,900 ! Other examples have come up for sale since, and generally fetch much lower, more realistic prices. For example in the 2018 Ingvar Alm auction, a lot of two nice examples sold for $1265.

I doubt Robert was too bothered about the hit to his finances though.

[45flint]

I have heard that story as well.

[Garvin]

I was just speculating about Beeman with a friend today. I reckon he must have spent millions of dollars on his airgun collection.

[DrGunn]

Irrespective of how rare they may be, that is substantial price for an air pistol!

How common are these pistols - is there any records indicating how many were made?

Of the 5 examples shown in the gallery, it looks like the breach plug / cocking tool for 2 of of them (the Rock Island Auction and Beeman examples) have either been re-finished or are later replacements as the finish doesn’t seem to match the glossy finish on the rest of the pistol. There are also subtle differences in the shape of this part but this may simply be an artefact of the manufacturing process as it is presumably cut from solid rather than cast like the rest of the pistol. Having made a replacement breach plug for one of these recently I can confirm they require a lot of hand shaping.

[draitzer]

During the Kasok auction, on numerous lots I noticed Beeman in the room bidding against a specific absentee bidder on the RIA computer, often running the price to a level far beyond normal for the item (note this was long before live online action). It seemed odd that a rival would be so eager to acquire the same specific things as Beeman. Some time after the auction, Ingvar had a conversation with Dr. B in which he mentioned purchasing several items in the auction which my notes confirmed had been sold to the mystery absentee bidder's number. We agreed that the only viable explanation is that Beeman was bidding live against his own "buy-at-any-cost" absentee figures submitted before the auction day.

Don R.

[ccdjg]

During the Kasok auction, on numerous lots I noticed Beeman in the room bidding against a specific absentee bidder on the RIA computer, often running the price to a level far beyond normal for the item (note this was long before live online action). It seemed odd that a rival would be so eager to acquire the same specific things as Beeman. Some time after the auction, Ingvar had a conversation with Dr. B in which he mentioned purchasing several items in the auction which my notes confirmed had been sold to the mystery absentee bidder's number. We agreed that the only viable explanation is that Beeman was bidding live against his own "buy-at-any-cost" absentee figures submitted before the auction day.

Don R.

Thanks for adding some meat to the story, Don. It must have been a very bitter pill to swallow when Robert realised what he had done.

[Garvin]

Looking at the sheer number of similar pistols in the Beeman collection, I see a scattergun approach to accumulation that can only have come from a very rich, perhaps overly-competitive, rather obsessive collector.

Bidding against himself seems rather fitting of what I think I know of the man's personality: The airgun-collector-at-an-auction equivalent of 'he'd start a fight with himself if he was the only person in the room'! (No disrespect to his memory intended).

Comparing the big US auctions whose contents I am very familiar with, Kasok, Alm and now Beeman, my observation is that Myron Kasok's collection looks 'completist' or all-embracing, whereas Ingvar Alm's and Robert Beeman's look more discerning.

Maybe I'm over-thinking this...

[micky2]

Well surely if he had submited a pre bid with the auctioneers, he would have known that he was the winning bidder up to his set price. more fool him if he didn't.

[leh22]

During the Kasok auction, on numerous lots I noticed Beeman in the room bidding against a specific absentee bidder on the RIA computer, often running the price to a level far beyond normal for the item (note this was long before live online action). It seemed odd that a rival would be so eager to acquire the same specific things as Beeman. Some time after the auction, Ingvar had a conversation with Dr. B in which he mentioned purchasing several items in the auction which my notes confirmed had been sold to the mystery absentee bidder's number. We agreed that the only viable explanation is that Beeman was bidding live against his own "buy-at-any-cost" absentee figures submitted before the auction day.

Don R.

Don:

I remember that while we were waiting to close out our accounts at Myron's auctions (and after we surmised that the Doc had been bidding against himself), we thought that perhaps he was only running up the prices he paid for items to substantiate those crazy high prices that he was pushing/publishing in that new-fangled Blue Book of Airguns, and thus feathering his own nest, so to speak. Perhaps?!?

Larry

[45flint]

In the heat of an auction for something you really want stupid things can happen. I was recently online bidding on a gun I have always wanted. Had my top price in mind. The auction starts and I’m pushing away on the bid button as the price climbs. All of a sudden it stops at a price well below my top. I start hitting the button and nothing happens. Hit it over and over its frozen! The gun sells and I’m furious. Slam my iPad closed. After a minute I go back to the auction and look back, I see the flash of some text that I won. Yes I had the high bid and the system wouldn’t let me bid against myself!!!! Lol. I imagine Doc just got caught up in the moment like I did, but now there are better safeguards.

I believe the Rock Island has language on their site that if you leave a written bid they can’t protect you from bidding against yourself. Wonder if Doc caused this to be added?