Is loading without looking important to you? … and pistol shortlist comments.

[Itskeith]

Hello everyone.

I'm curious who loads 10m Air Pistol without looking and have seen this mentioned in a couple of threads.

And does this help with a ‘meditative state’ when shooting?

The reason I ask is that:

- I have been shooting .22LR Benchrest for a few months and not looking whilst reloading has greatly helped with my position / stability and improved my scores by at least a couple of points.


- I have had an air pistol introduction lesson which I really enjoyed and am looking to join a club (after moving house / county in a few weeks) and want to help create a short list of pistols to try. I understand that finding one with the best fit / feel is critical, but I thought a few questions here may help me whittle down the shortlist.


My current shortlist of early / low cost and popular (easy to resell later if needed) PCP’s 10m Air match pistols, with top loading trays appears to be:

Morini CM162
Walther LP300 / LP400
Pardini K10
FWB P44

This would of course rule out Steyr LP1 / LP1p’s, which I guess you do need to look at whilst loading!
Though I’m guessing from the performance of top shooters with Steyr pistols that this is not a problem for them!

Also, I have read lots of recommendations for the great servicing availability of Morini and Steyr pistols in the UK.

Are parts and servicing also easily available for the Walther LP300 / LP400 / Pardini K10 and FWB P44?
Or for this reason would you delete any of these off your shortlist?

Some specific model questions:
Would you avoid the early Morini CM162E’s due to battery availability?

Is a Walther LP300 plenty good enough for a beginner to learn with, or would any LP400 users (who used to own an LP300) recommend, waiting - saving up and paying the extra for an LP400?

Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

Cheers.
Keith

[eyebull]

My knowledge of 10m match pistols is minimal, but I do think regardless of recommendations in this thread, at this price point you really need to hold and shoot before buying.
Every range/club I've been to, people have always been very willing to let you have a go with their kit, perhaps hold off on the big buy until you have shot a few of them at your new club.

[RobinC]

[QUOTE=Itskeith;8260198]Hello everyone.

I'm curious who loads 10m Air Pistol without looking and have seen this mentioned in a couple of threads.

And does this help with a ‘meditative state’ when shooting?

The reason I ask is that:

- I have been shooting .22LR Benchrest for a few months and not looking whilst reloading has greatly helped with my position / stability and improved my scores by at least a couple of points.




I'm sorry Kieth, that is BS!!!

Loading an airgun with out looking, is asking for a problem, putting a pellet in backwards never ends well!

As for your .22lr Benchrest, you are new, you will improve!

You don't want to be in a "meditive state", you need to concentrate 100% on what you are doing to the exclusion of all else, and loading is part of it.


Welcome to the sport, and buying your own kit is a great part of it, don't rush, try as much as you can, and find what suits you as they can be very personal, and decide on your own preferences. PS, Don't exclude the LP1, a great pistol.

Have Fun
Robin

[zooma]

[QUOTE=RobinC;8260254]

Hello everyone.

I'm curious who loads 10m Air Pistol without looking and have seen this mentioned in a couple of threads.

And does this help with a ‘meditative state’ when shooting?

The reason I ask is that:

- "I have been shooting .22LR Benchrest for a few months and not looking whilst reloading has greatly helped with my position / stability and improved my scores by at least a couple of points."


I'm sorry Kieth, that is BS!!!

Loading an airgun without looking, is asking for a problem, putting a pellet in backwards never ends well!

As for your .22lr Benchrest, you are new, you will improve!

You don't want to be in a "meditive state", you need to concentrate 100% on what you are doing to the exclusion of all else, and loading is part of it.


Welcome to the sport, and buying your own kit is a great part of it, don't rush, try as much as you can, and find what suits you as they can be very personal, and decide on your own preferences. PS, Don't exclude the LP1, a great pistol.

Have Fun
Robin

Absolutely right Robin,

Its not unknown for me to insert a pellet in my match rifle (or pistol) the wrong way around when I am looking (not very often - but it can happen) - so what are the chances of success when I am not looking

Stay safe,

Bob.

[mikec4]

My current shortlist of early / low cost and popular (easy to resell later if needed) PCP’s 10m Air match pistols, with top loading trays appears to be:

Morini CM162
Walther LP300 / LP400
Pardini K10
FWB P44

This would of course rule out Steyr LP1 / LP1p’s, which I guess you do need to look at whilst loading!
Though I’m guessing from the performance of top shooters with Steyr pistols that this is not a problem for them!

Also, I have read lots of recommendations for the great servicing availability of Morini and Steyr pistols in the UK.

Are parts and servicing also easily available for the Walther LP300 / LP400 / Pardini K10 and FWB P44?Diverse Trading for Pardini Check UK distributors/importers - Diverse Trading for Pardini
Or for this reason would you delete any of these off your shortlist?

Some specific model questions:
Would you avoid the early Morini CM162E’s due to battery availability? Yes - the later versions use 2 x AAA either Duracell or rechargeable.

Is a Walther LP300 plenty good enough for a beginner to learn with, or would any LP400 users (who used to own an LP300) recommend, waiting - saving up and paying the extra for an LP400? LP400 trigger is better and more reliable - my LP300 trigger used to disassemble itself regularly; the grip is a 3 axis adjustable one so returning it to the correct orientation was a faff.

Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

Better still - buy a Pardini K12......certainly, try ALL the above and buy the one that fits you best. A good, qualified pistol coach should be able to help.

Cheers.
Keith

Just my 2 cents worth - other opinions are available.

ATB
Mike.

[Itskeith]

Many thanks everyone for the insights and honesty.

Great to know that not looking is not a good plan – hadn’t thought about the pellet back to front implications! And so now I can take a ‘top loading tray’ off the list of essential requirements.

It’s good to have whittled down the short-list a bit (or is that increased it a bit) 😊

Will still check as many as I can for best fit / feel is critical, as I have read here on many occasions and not rush into anything.

The new short list to try out is:

Morini CM162 (not the early battery one).
Walther LP400
Pardini K10
FWB P44
Steyr LP1p.

Off to move house, find a new club and hopefully a great coach.

Happy and excited.

Cheers,
Keith

PS. Thanks also for the K12 recommendation – def out of my price range.

[RobinC]

Keith

And if you get the chance, try a compact, they can be a bit marmite, but I, and many others loved them, the LP1 compact is a great pistol, when arthritis ended my pistol shooting, I had one, as did several in our club, including some in the GB squad, and one member won the GB air pistol Championship with his.

Don't rush, try everything you can, best of luck.

Have Fun
Robin

[Itskeith]

Hi Robin,

Many thanks and great tip. Will add some compacts to the shortlist. Presumably that's Steyr and Morini then.

An Air Pistol induction is now booked in with a potential new club at the end of Nov

Looking forward to trying everything I can get my hands on.

Best wishes.
Keith

PS. Enjoyed your 0.223 action & KK500 stock project - inspired!

[thirdwheel]

Enjoy the journey, my tuppence worth, I want to put my pellet in the bore and thumb it in place I compete with a K12 but my back up is a Morini Titanium that has a "tray" and so many times I've dropped a pellet in the gulley / tray and it has dropped backwards needing tipping out and a restart needed. For me the full length works but to bring the COG back you can use a compact / short cylinder. I do have short barrels and cylinders for both the K12 and Morini and have used them extensively but have returned to the full size versions now. Try out all you can, it is a hoot and a really good focus to have in life as you have to switch off every other thought and that is a good thing.

[RobinC]

Hi Robin,



PS. Enjoyed your 0.223 action & KK500 stock project - inspired!

Thanks Keith,

I'm still refining it, the folding cheek piece has now gone through various versions and is now on Mk 5, reverted to my original folding bolt side, but its needed a special hinge to do it, but now its perfection!!

Just hope we get more range dates next year, you'll have to come and try 300 mt its like small bore (proportional target) just with a big bang, indoor firing point, electronic targets, and more wind, very demanding but good fun.

Have Fun
Robin

[Itskeith]

Very very tempting (thanks) Robin.

Just got to move house first in the next month.

Already got an induction into a new club booked

[bootneckbob]

Hi, glad to see although I'm late to reply, the loading without looking has been dispelled as BS!!! You have to break your position in AP anyway.

So.. I was going to say don't discount Steyr because of this loading without looking rubbish, but seems you are now open to the idea. Don't think you'll find a better supported brand here than Steyr and there's a reason a lot of people use them.

I started AP about 8 years ago and bought the Steyr LP50 as I wasn't sure which disciplines I'd do. After my 1st year I did pretty well with it but was advised to get a dedicated single shot as I wasn't using the 5 shot rapid capability. I then bought a Walther LP400 carbon; a rushed impromptu buy from the Sportman gun center in Exeter as it goes. Great pistol but I traded again within a year for a Steyr Evo10e.

My though process at this point being concerns over Walther support and a belief the mechanical dry firing system might wear out as it felt 'fragile'. The Steyr is built like a truck in comparison and electronic so nothing to wear out. Well I was wrong about that as I had to replace the main circuit board on the pistol after a few years of use but as I said earlier Steyr UK are very good and the replacement part arrived in no time; quite expensive for a little circuit board/battery. Anyway, get into Covid and I couldn't break 550 despite shooting pistol now for 4 years so believing it might be the pistol (it was never going to be the pistol) I borrowed a a mates FWB P8X, bought another club mates LP400 (Alu) and of course had my Evo10e which I'd been shooting for 2 or 3 years or so at that point. Long story short after a month of shooting all 3 (lockdown) and studying the stats there was 1% point in my average between the 3 of them. I then decided to look at me and after reading a very good article (I usually send the link to it for new shooters) I put into practice the basics and smashed my PB and shot over 555 with the Steyr and the Walther. The FWB was back with it's owner by this point. My PB then was 559.

As I had the LP400 Alu and the Steyr Evo10e at this point and shooting almost identically with both I decided to take the best of both and bought the LP500 and sold the other two off. Now this part is important for the new shooter I think; all 10m target pistols will outshoot you but some will feel better suited to you than others. My Steyr had a Rink grip made for me but I never liked it as much as the standard Walther ones. The standard Steyr one isn't bad, but like I said it's a personal feel. I bought the LP500 based on the fit and feel of the grip and the pistol and although I bought the mechanical version it can be easily made electronic by swapping the trigger unit out. Support for Walther appears to be available now through East Midlands Range although I can't say I've had to use them yet.

Unless money isn't an issue and you can afford to buy again and again I'd be inclined to wait until you join the club and see if you can handle a few different models. Grip size is a factor and might be an additional cost if you go secondhand (right pistol wrong gripsize). Equally you could go for a really cheap SSP and shoot your first season with one of those to make sure AP is for you.

Sorry I went a bit off topic.....

[trajectory]

Is loading without looking important to you?

Been pistol shooting for a while, thought I'd heard of most things by now, but hey ho not heard of that. DONT DO IT would strongly be my advice.

When slow firing I was always told to rest my eyes between shots & developed a sequence to run through after firing to do so. Theres other aspects too such as relaxing other muscle groups & to some extent it depends a bit if you have a springer, a SSP or pre charged or CO2 pistol, but relaxing your eyes doesn't mean closing them while you are reloading to me.