Greener Air Rifles and Webley Mk2s

[andrewM]

I wonder how many collectors own a Greener air rifle, with the cam mechanism. I understand these operate at around 9 -10ft/lb in 22 and 177 - am I correct? What is the accuracy like?

Ditto the Webley Mk2 - presumably same power level, or a little higher, but what is its accuracy like?

Is it easy to replace the springs on both, where they have clearly declined over the years?

I ask because I am wondering whether to expand my humble collection - always an ominous temptation, to which I often succumb. I would seek to use these at 25-30yds for target shooting.

Rgds
A

[AC99]

I have a Greener in .22; s/n 701 but I am not sure of the muzzle energy since I last shot it about fifteen years ago. When I planned to shoot it recently (only a week ago) the sear failed to engage when I attempted to cock it so it will have to be stripped. In terms of accuracy I recall making reasonable group when I first bought it and which I was satisfied with at the time but don't remember the group size. I have never attempted to fit a spring so I have no idea how difficult it would be.

Similarly I have never changed the spring on any of my four Mk11's but they have similar mechanisms to the Webley pistols, all be it on a larger scale, on which it is very easy to replace springs. In terms of accuracy, when we had a competition at our local club about six years ago, shooting off-hand with Mk 11's at 25yards none of us did brilliantly. After the match I remember it took some time for the small clouds of oil vapour to disperse from the firing point! These rifles take a bit of getting used to and you need to practice a lot in order develop a consistent hold and technique, but both guns are a lot of fun to shoot.

Aubrey

[andrewM]

Thank you Aubrey for your insights.

The engineering on the Greener is excellent but few were made so it might not be so easy to find one. If it lacks accuracy, I would not bother but I gather it is quite good in this respect. There was a superb one, which had been completely refurbished and rebuilt professionally, at Kempton a year or so ago. The cost was about £850 - which was not cheap!

The Webley Mk2, I have heard, is sensitive to the hold position. It seems, as you say, that the rifle requires plenty of practice to master.

I do like to use my air rifles, so time available is also a factor in adding to the collection. Probably, the best pre-WW2 air rifle is the BSA Standard and I much enjoy using my own in 22, in which I find Superdomes are the most accurate.

Kind rgds
A

[greenwayjames]

The W&S Mk2 will always give poor consistent accuracy when using the diopter sight because the bolt will not return the breech end of the barrel to the same point every time. The harder the seal the better to combat this fault but over time that will cause the sights to wander off.
Bowkett had a customer many years ago who worked for Greener but on the toolmaking side not a gunsmith. While working there he wanted an airgun so got them to make one up for him. Apparently if a dealer wanted a Greener airgun they put one together from components in store to add to an order for rifles, shotguns or whatever. After the launch there was no production line as such. Bowkett did a deal for the put together Greener and sold it to his friend the late Ray Hill. I believe Ray passed it on to a very skilled chap. When the ex Greener toolmaker had it it was in the white with no markings or numbers. The skilled chap rectified that and blacked it.

[Josie & John]

The W&S Mk2 will always give poor consistent accuracy when using the diopter sight because the bolt will not return the breech end of the barrel to the same point every time. The harder the seal the better to combat this fault but over time that will cause the sights to wander off.

I've had a different experience with my Mk2 Service air rifles, which all give excellent accuracy. I was delighted to see scores of 72/75 and 73/75 when I used it for bell target some years ago. One of my Mk2s also won a vintage HFT shoot, beating others using BSAs.

John

[ptdunk]

Same as John I’ve won a few vintage hft & bell target comps with my mk2 service.
It’s extremely accurate but possibly due shooting at 5.5ftlbs and not dieseling. Prior to me setting it up like that it was more powerful but not nice to shoot.

It’s well worn too and has a very light trigger which helps.
I also found shooting with the peep sight inconsistent so I only use the open sights with a very light hold.

Cheers,
Matt

[Josie & John]

Same as John I’ve won a few vintage hft & bell target comps with my mk2 service.
It’s extremely accurate but possibly due shooting at 5.5ftlbs and not dieseling. Prior to me setting it up like that it was more powerful but not nice to shoot.

It’s well worn too and has a very light trigger which helps.
I also found shooting with the peep sight inconsistent so I only use the open sights with a very light hold.

Cheers,
Matt

Yep, agreed - a very light hold gets the best from the Mk2. Sadly my eyes are no longer good enough to use the opens without glasses but the peep is do-able.

John

[andrewM]

I think that what I take from all of this is that one needs to test one in advance. Good point, too, about the rear peep sight from Greenwayjames. I wonder if the Mk2s were as inconsistent at the later MK3s: some grouped tightly but I have tested others where groups of not better than 3in at 25yds were possible.

Meanwhile, any further views or information on the Greener would be much appreciated. Did they make their own barrels, I wonder, or buy them elsewhere?

Rgds
A