Is this an Airsporter

[Dornfelderliebe]

Here are some you tube videos showing an Airsporter lookalike. Being new it does not qualify for collectables but you may find it of interest.
I cannot tell whether any original tooling has been used in the manufacture.
it's called the AK650 and it's from India. I have never heard of AK airguns before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhLLSYW_VG4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=susuDUb0pJU

Some more Youtube videos are around I cannot understand how I've missed them.

[look no hands]

It's obviously a knock off, the rear sight isn't BSA, if you're going to make a new rifle, even if it is a copy, why make it a taploader, when it's just as easy to make it a sliding breach, can't imagine what the inside is going to be like, but it'd be interesting to see what the triggers like, they've not fully copied the iconic rolling wave trigger guard and the blade looks different, they've tried to copy the maxigrip rail but it's screwed on, it's probably better as I wouldn't be surprised if it is 11mm and not the awkward 13mm on BSA's now, the schnabel tip looks chunky and looks like one of those home attempt jobbies that manage to escape people's sheds sometimes.

[Gareth W-B]

There was a thread on here about 20 years ago showing a wonderfully skilled Indian family in the (then) Indian city of Bombay who ran a quality little cottage industry making cloned BSA air rifle doppelgängers from scratch (quite literally) including tap loader Stutzens and the like, so I am wondering if maybe this rifle as in the video etc is one of these air rifles?

[Hsing-ee]

It's obviously a knock off, the rear sight isn't BSA, if you're going to make a new rifle, even if it is a copy, why make it a taploader, when it's just as easy to make it a sliding breach, can't imagine what the inside is going to be like, but it'd be interesting to see what the triggers like, they've not fully copied the iconic rolling wave trigger guard and the blade looks different, they've tried to copy the maxigrip rail but it's screwed on, it's probably better as I wouldn't be surprised if it is 11mm and not the awkward 13mm on BSA's now, the schnabel tip looks chunky and looks like one of those home attempt jobbies that manage to escape people's sheds sometimes.

In the YT comments it is mentioned that it is an explicit copy of the BSA Stutzen, and there is a complaint that the company copied the tap loader and not the more powerful RB2. Maybe Gamo/BSA has the patent on the RB2. A sliding-breech Airsporter would be awesome though Pete (ProSport). The rearsight looks like the type fitted to the Chinese SMK rifles. At first I thought maybe they had used elements of the Falke 80 but that would be unlikely, just a jaggy fore-end chequering panel. The scope rail is indeed 11mm, it looks like one of those glue-on ones you can get off the auction site. 900 fps is claimed with an 8 grain .177 pellet, giving over 14 fpe.

While the metal finish and the engineering look a bit crude, the rifle retails for 16,000 rupees, which is £150. Average Indian salary is just over £9000 a year. Average UK salary is about £28,000 so it would be about £450 in UK 'expensiveness' equivalence, although I don't know how much they get taxed etc. For comparison in India an HW77 will cost £430, which would hit the average Indian buyer the same as £1300 for the UK buyer. So for the average Indian an HW77 is like buying a Steyr. The advertising make a big deal of the 'full length stock'. Perhaps it appeals to Indians who were issued a SMLE when they were in the Army or police.

If this was sold in the UK market it would be worth £150 just to hang on the wall. The groups in one of the videos show that would probably be the best use for it. Maybe T20 or Jon Budd could make it shoot good.

Sold out on this Indian website

https://airgunbazaar.in/product/ak-s...5mm-air-rifle/

[ogilkes]

The rear sight at least looks like a copy of one of the adjustable sights you used to find on Chinese B3s and DB4s.

There is or was, a well-known local industry copying BSA guns, it was done in the Philippines and in Indonesia so this should not be a surprise. Indian Ordnance still makes the Webley Mk4 revolver and Sterling SMG. So they know quality when they see it. Or, to take another example, Royal Enfield motorcycles survived in the subcontinent before its recent worldwide expansion.

India itself has a plethora of manufacturers. The 'National' break barrel by the Hulme Pipe Company, is joined by companies with odd names like 'Tommy' producing a wide range of types form spring guns to PCPs. The website 'Indians for Guns' is well worth perusing. Clones of western and Chinese guns (clones of clones) are common enough. They all tend to look and fell a bit on the rough side (not a surprise they are mostly built in small machine shops), but shoot well enough. I have a 'Tommy' break barrel.

Its interesting, one of the largest potential markets for rifles at the right price point.

[Shed tuner]

In the YT comments it is mentioned that it is an explicit copy of the BSA Stutzen, and there is a complaint that the company copied the tap loader and not the more powerful RB2. Maybe Gamo/BSA has the patent on the RB2.

I'm doubting patent infringement is high on their list of concerns Probably just easier and less parts to make a tap loader..

And the rearsight looks very much like a gamo..

It actually doesn't look too bad tbh, just needs fettling...

[evert]

I'm doubting patent infringement is high on their list of concerns Probably just easier and less parts to make a tap loader..

And the rearsight looks very much like a gamo..

It actually doesn't look too bad tbh, just needs fettling...

Looks do not tell us much about bore quality, tap fit or tap alignment ;-)

[look no hands]

Looks do not tell us much about bore quality, tap fit or tap alignment ;-)

That was one of the reasons I questioned why they done a tap loader.

[Hsing-ee]

That was one of the reasons I questioned why they done a tap loader.

Quite right as it can be ballsed up in multiple dimensions.. the most difficult arrangement

[look no hands]

Quite right as it can be ballsed up in multiple dimensions.. the most difficult arrangement

If they had done a sliding breech then they would have improved upon the tap loader and also not have worried about the RB2 copy right situation.

[Dornfelderliebe]

from Ogilkes "India itself has a plethora of manufacturers. The 'National' break barrel by the Hulme Pipe Company, is joined by companies with odd names like 'Tommy' producing a wide range of types form spring guns to PCPs. The website 'Indians for Guns' is well worth perusing. Clones of western and Chinese guns (clones of clones) are common enough. They all tend to look and fell a bit on the rough side (not a surprise they are mostly built in small machine shops), but shoot well enough. I have a 'Tommy' break barrel.

Its interesting, one of the largest potential markets for rifles at the right price point.[/QUOTE]"

I've had a quick look at this forum, there are discussions on bringing stuff into India, the scope laws look a bit of a minefield. Anyway I am still awaiting email replies from AK airguns and the bazaar mentioned previously.
Thanks Ogilkes

[junglie]

It was me that made the comment on the YT video about why didn't they copy the roller breech, doubt
BSA copyrighted it as kral used it on an underlever a year or two after BSA dropped the RB airsporter. shouldn't have sold mine but hopefully it's still safe in mattyboys hands.