The American / English - Hy-Score shootoff

[45flint]

Now have equally cased examples of the English and American version of the Hy-Score pistols. I took them out back and shot them over the chrony. The English version is similar to the short barrel American pistol. With my American cased set I can shoot long barrel and short barrel versions. I assume my versions are from the 1950’s the short barrel has to be and the long barrel came in a very early box. Impression were interesting. My American long barrel was very smooth and easy to cock, huge difference from the other two. It feels like a much lighter spring. The two short barrels were similar in cock but the American seemed a bit smoother. The results with 7 grain Hobbys.

English averaged. 375 FPS

American long barrel 424 FPS

American short barrel 450 FPS

Generally the American pistols seem better finished and a bit smoother. Certainly a difference in power. The surprise to me is the long barrel is just so much easier to cock and so smooth but still pretty powerful. You technical wizards, does the longer barrel make up for a lighter spring? I do think the style of the English pistol is cooler and the fake moderator takes it over the top. It is curious as to why the performance seems less?

[Lakey]

It could be down to a lubrication issue, or air leaking back around the barrel due to a dry sealing washer.

Apparently correct lubrication is crucial in these guns, or you can suffer a drop off in power.

Lakey

[Garvin]

It could be down to a lubrication issue, or air leaking back around the barrel due to a dry sealing washer.

Apparently correct lubrication is crucial in these guns, or you can suffer a drop off in power.

Lakey

I agree with Andy. The power differential sounds too great for what is essentially the same pistol.

[Re01312]

Steve

When I am able I re-run the test. I have the same airguns and a chronograph. I have tested all my Hy-score pistol. My memory is the Phoenix Arm appx 385fps Hy-score appx 420fps. My records and memory support Steve's finding all my airgun are well oiled.

The cocking is best with long barrel adding to cocking lever lengh, my opinion.

Randall

[45flint]

I agree with Andy. The power differential sounds too great for what is essentially the same pistol.

I am going to retest the Phoenix but I had two of them and as remember the other had similar power. I do take issue with saying these are essentially the same pistol. That is true outwardly but I have posted pictures before showing the pistons are not the same as my 1950’s pistols. The feel in cocking is different? My gut is the internals are not made as precisely? What is surprising is the springs in the American Hy-Scores are over 60 years old. Warm weather back at it tomorrow. Randall results will be interesting he has a good collection of Hy-Scores.

[Modski66]

It could be down to a lubrication issue, or air leaking back around the barrel due to a dry sealing washer.

Apparently correct lubrication is crucial in these guns, or you can suffer a drop off in power.

Lakey

What is the definition of correct lubrication? And what is the solution to a dry sealing washer?

My Phoenix Hy-Score is running at around 400fps with 7.4gr Econ II.

[ggggr]

Its a bit of a PITA but the simplest thing to do is to swap the mainsprings over and retest the guns. If the power levels swap, then it's down to the springs and if they don't then you have ruled the springs out and are looking for something else.
Maybe Shed tuner will step in and say something, but sometimes guns are better with softer springs.

[ptdunk]

Just checked my U.K. Phoenix Hyscore and it does 430fps with 7gr hobby’s.

I generally strip, clean and relube all the pistols I buy to make sure they are operating at their best.
It’s not really a representative test if a pistol might not have been serviced for 35 years IMO.

Cheers,
Matt

[45flint]

Just checked my U.K. Phoenix Hyscore and it does 430fps with 7gr hobby’s.

I generally strip, clean and relube all the pistols I buy to make sure they are operating at their best.
It’s not really a representative test if a pistol might not have been serviced for 35 years IMO.

Cheers,
Matt

Thanks for that test Matt, I find taking apart a Hy-Score a bit intimidating and have never done it. I think this is a major weakness of the pistol in that stripping it is not like taking apart my BSA Standard. I have seen many over here a bit scared up by someone obviously doing or trying to do it. I have always just oiled the piston and all of mine have just worked great, but I always buy examples in very good condition. My only equalizer in a sense is the Phoenix is mint and hasn’t been serviced in 35 years and my Hy-score has not been serviced in about twice as many years. Unfortunately I can’t demonstrate the feel of smoothness of the American pistols.

[ptdunk]

Thanks for that test Matt, I find taking apart a Hy-Score a bit intimidating and have never done it. I think this is a major weakness of the pistol in that stripping it is not like taking apart my BSA Standard. I have seen many over here a bit scared up by someone obviously doing or trying to do it. I have always just oiled the piston and all of mine have just worked great, but I always buy examples in very good condition. My only equalizer in a sense is the Phoenix is mint and hasn’t been serviced in 35 years and my Hy-score has not been serviced in about twice as many years. Unfortunately I can’t demonstrate the feel of smoothness of the American pistols.

Hi Steve,
I don't remember it being difficult, instructions here: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....03-strip-down/

I understand how you feel though, to be honest when I first started collecting I thought I'd never take any of them apart, for fear of either damaging them or not being able to put them back together.
That all changed when I first took apart a Webley spring pistol and found it was easy to do and the pistol shot a bit nicer after a service.
Since then I do it with both pistols and rifles and I think it really closes the circle of the collecting experience: Learning the history, learning exactly how it works and then seeing how it shoots. Also I feel I've done the gun a service to ensure it's shooting at it's best, that's what it was made for after all.

It gives me a more rounded appreciation of an old airgun.
I'm not very mechanically minded but thanks to the idiot's guide on here, and several other resources it seems it's always possible to find out how.
What's the worst that could happen? I think the benefits outweigh the risks every time. That side of it has become one of the most enjoyable aspects of collecting for me.

Sometimes it's good to do something scary, I was terrified when I took that Kuchenreuter Bellows gun apart, but it's one of the most rewarding airgun services I've ever done.

Cheers,
Matt

[harvey_s]

Don't suppose any of you guys have a spare rear shutter you'd be willing to part with do you?

[45flint]

Hi Steve,
I don't remember it being difficult, instructions here: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....03-strip-down/

I understand how you feel though, to be honest when I first started collecting I thought I'd never take any of them apart, for fear of either damaging them or not being able to put them back together.
That all changed when I first took apart a Webley spring pistol and found it was easy to do and the pistol shot a bit nicer after a service.
Since then I do it with both pistols and rifles and I think it really closes the circle of the collecting experience: Learning the history, learning exactly how it works and then seeing how it shoots. Also I feel I've done the gun a service to ensure it's shooting at it's best, that's what it was made for after all.

It gives me a more rounded appreciation of an old airgun.
I'm not very mechanically minded but thanks to the idiot's guide on here, and several other resources it seems it's always possible to find out how.
What's the worst that could happen? I think the benefits outweigh the risks every time. That side of it has become one of the most enjoyable aspects of collecting for me.

Sometimes it's good to do something scary, I was terrified when I took that Kuchenreuter Bellows gun apart, but it's one of the most rewarding airgun services I've ever done.

Cheers,
Matt

So very true Matt, I can appreciate all you say. I had to take apart my 1914 BSA Sporting cause it came with a broken spring. The journey of sorting the spring, fixing the piston seal and making a new front sight was an experience that bonded me to the rifle. Seems a part of me now never sell that one. Still with most guns I tend to go with “if it’s not broken don’t fix it” lol. I did just buy a Crosman Town and Country 108 at a good price at an auction that said it wasn’t working. One of my favorite American rare classics, kind of looking forward to seeing it I can get her going.

[Re01312]

I will retest the various Hy-scores once I am release from hospital my wife and suffered a bad auto accident. Louisa and I will fully recovery I an wheelchair bound .

I test every air pistol I own. The Phoenix Arms Hy-score are slower guys.
My Hy-scores are services and lubed before each test. Variables are minimun and control.

Hy-scores are my thing, only the 805 model is missing in collection.

[45flint]

I will retest the various Hy-scores once I am release from hospital my wife and suffered a bad auto accident. Louisa and I will fully recovery I an wheelchair bound .

I test every air pistol I own. The Phoenix Arms Hy-score are slower guys.
My Hy-scores are services and lubed before each test. Variables are minimun and control.

Hy-scores are my thing, only the 805 model is missing in collection.

Wow, sorry for your accident, wishing a speedy recovery.

[Garvin]

I will retest the various Hy-scores once I am release from hospital my wife and suffered a bad auto accident. Louisa and I will fully recovery I an wheelchair bound .

Glad to hear you're both on the mend Randall.