Airgun Obsessions of The 70s

[ggggr]

Things that used to concern airgunners in the U.K. in the late 70s early 80s included Â…

1. Buying British. While it was obvious that the German rifles (Weihrauch, Feinwerkbau, Original Diana, BSF) were of much better design and better quality, people would encourage eachother to 'Buy British' and get the inferior although admittedly cheaper BSA, Webley and Milbro guns. As there wasn’t any competitive shooting outside of 6 yard & 10 meter match at the time and airguns were used for plinking and hunting pests this was actually fair enough. With a British gun you just had to stand or stalk closer to the target or quarry.

2. Headshots or heart/lung shots? Enough said. With most spring guns grouping about 1-2” at 20 yards with the pellets of the time, you can see how this was a thing.

3. Open sights or a scope? Many thought a scope would mean trigger snatching as the crosshairs danced over the mark, or that hunters would try to shoot quarry at unrealistic distances. Fogging & fragility were also seen as minus points.

4. Dieselling. Everyone was scared of it ruining accuracy and internals like the spring and piston, while the Cardews built an entire theory of airgun power development around it. No one talks about dieselling any more.

5. Twelve Foot Pounds. 12 fpe is just another power level to todays shooters, albeit the threshold for an FAC so quite important. Back in the 70s rifles that could actually get close to this number were held in awe. No one had a chronograph so no one really knew how powerful their guns were. Webley and BSA rifles in the usual maintenance condition of the time would probably be doing 9 fpe, so something like a Feinwerkbau Sport was a real cannon.

6. .177 or .22? The larger caliber was seen as more powerful than the smaller one BECAUSE IT WAS. Only the FWB Sport and BSF break barrels had .177s that went over 11 fpe. A .22 Airsporter of the time would do 10.5 and a .177 about 9. .177 pellets were available as flat-head match pellets which were much more consistent and accurate than .22s so Eddie Barber in Airgun World started to push .177 as a hunting caliber even though it was less powerfulin most rifles. 'A hit in the brain of a pigeon with a .177 beats chipping its beak with a .22 any day' was the philosophy. When FT came along the superiority of the .177 at variable ranges pushed its popularity and displaced .22 for many hunters.

7. Scope creep. Mounts were cheap and often scope ramps were shallow so there were lots of articles about arresting scope creep. From Araldite to arrestor blocks to one-piece mounts and the dreadful BSA scope stop, everything was thrown at this problem. Even so, your scope moving under recoil was the main reason you could use for missing.

8. Pointed pellets. Some people conflated 'penetration' with 'killing power' so they were keen on these things, but there was debate about them being just gimmicks. Power testing was done by shooting through old catalogs or telephone books, and pointed pellets did this with style. All the ones I tried were bloody awful, though I never tried the Silver Jet ones from Japan which were very well made and appeared to give good groups in the magazine tests.

9. Paramilitary looking rifles. In the days before airsoft, while it was still legal to buy a semi-automatic full bore military rifle, if you wanted an Army-look gun off-ticket you could only get a Sussex Armoury Jackal or Hammerli 420 or ASI Paratrooper. Some people frowned on these as bad PR for shooting, others smiled with joy at the fun they brought to the game. No one cares about this any more, some guns don’t even look like guns anymore, more like weird TV cameras or a goofy Hollywood prop from a sci-fi film.

So these are the dead debates I can remember. What are yours?

British was more easily available and cheaper. A consideration when shooting on a budget or just plinking. BSF 55's are really crude and so it the pistol.

I know that they used to recommend the "engine room" of heart and lungs for bunnies and shooting a pigeon in the back to avoid the crop.

I still don't like scopes but I only plink at very short range. A lot of the scopes were very crappy. A 4 x 32 was the dogs danglies..

I still talk about dieseling and have had some guns that had obviously had the power aiding squirt of something down the transfer port or barrel. I remember the horrible smell of Triflon and the carriers in that dieseled like hell.

You never heard of chronographs and Cardew had the ballistic pendulum. I remember them testing a couple of Hw35's in AGW and they theorised that the E was lower in power (9ft lb?) because of the longer barrel. The search for power brought us Ox springs etc and those "tuning kits" with bits of sponge on a stick.

.22 for me now except for guns that only came in .177 (Bsa Cadet and Major and the Webley Junior pistol) . I remember AGW testing a FWB in .177 and a MAG Bsa Mercury in .25. The bloke shot a rat in a barn with the FWB and it kept on coming and leapt over his shoulder. With the Mercury, he just hit them and they stopped. One bloke said he preferred .22 because they were easier to load with cold hands. He was (and is ) right.

The BSA scope stop was a horrible thing. I think i bought one off the bay a few years back but gave it to a collector. Yes a lot of scopes and mounts were very crappy.

I still don't understand why there are so many different types of pellets now. All you need are Diablo and wadcutters. I did once try some Champion Hunter flat point pellets. They seemed to be pretty accurate in an old Meteor I had.

I never liked the look of the Jackels other than the Woodsman? Paratroopers look like toys. There used to be a Sussex Armoury shop in Shambles Square in Manchester. A fine selection of right wing types used to hang about drooling over coshes, blackjacks and billy canes.

I guess it's not a debate, but time has proved how many lies and BS was talked in AGW. Remember Rod Lynton?

[Hsing-ee]

BSF 55's are really crude and so it the pistol.

I remember AGW testing a FWB in .177 and a MAG Bsa Mercury in .25. The bloke shot a rat in a barn with the FWB and it kept on coming and leapt over his shoulder. With the Mercury, he just hit them and they stopped.

I still don't understand why there are so many different types of pellets now. All you need are Diablo and wadcutters. I did once try some Champion Hunter flat point pellets. They seemed to be pretty accurate in an old Meteor I had.

I never liked the look of the Jackels other than the Woodsman? Paratroopers look like toys. There used to be a Sussex Armoury shop in Shambles Square in Manchester. A fine selection of right wing types used to hang about drooling over coshes, blackjacks and billy canes.

Haha the old anti-BSF sentiment! The 55 is not THAT crude, just not as well finished as the price would indicate.
100% on the pellet shape, should have been settled ages ago.
The .177 vs .25 story, while plausible, is almost certainly AGW fiction. And yes, Rod Lynton owned up to making up test results at one point .. he was a friendly bloke though just liked exaggerating and erm 'fibbing'.. writing things like he shot pigeons through the head at 40 yards with a Crosman pistol and trap-thrown clay pigeons with a Jackal AR7. John Darling was the real hunter type.

Brilliant bit of mass observation about the truncheon-fanciers in Shambles Square. They were probably just re-enactors wanting to get their cosplay outfits for the Battle of Cable Street.

[flyingfish]

They were probably just re-enactors wanting to get their cosplay outfits for the Battle of Cable Street. [/QUOTE]

Liberty! Justice! Reasonably priced love and a hard boiled egg!!!

[coburn]

Eley Wasp, Webley Specials or Milbro Caledonian were my major decision in the Seventies.

[Hsing-ee]

Eley Wasp, Webley Specials or Milbro Caledonian were my major decision in the Seventies.

Wasps were pretty top drawer stuff, both in .177 and .22. Remarkably accurate for such a dumpy little round, with the skirt to head distance being seemily too short to give best accuracy.

The modern non-Eley ones are awful.

Milbro Caledonian were typically assymetrical, never seen one that wasn't, but still more accurate than the rather pleasing looking Marksman which came in carboard boxes like pellets should.

[coburn]

Wasps were pretty top drawer stuff, both in .177 and .22. Remarkably accurate for such a dumpy little round, with the skirt to head distance being seemily too short to give best accuracy.

The modern non-Eley ones are awful.

Milbro Caledonian were typically assymetrical, never seen one that wasn't, but still more accurate than the rather pleasing looking Marksman which came in carboard boxes like pellets should.

I remember in the very early 80's locating a source of very cheap Wasps at a farm supply shop near Guildford. I mentioned this to my fellow club mates, orders duly taken, off I went the following weekend from Epsom down to said shop near Guildford. The return journey on my Honda C70 proved interesting as the weight of thirty odd tins of Wasps in the top box had their effect on the handling.

[AC all day]

I remember in the very early 80's locating a source of very cheap Wasps at a farm supply shop near Guildford. I mentioned this to my fellow club mates, orders duly taken, off I went the following weekend from Epsom down to said shop near Guildford. The return journey on my Honda C70 proved interesting as the weight of thirty odd tins of Wasps in the top box had their effect on the handling.

Ooooh thats geat!!
Buying airguns and pellets in 'NON' gun shops, my local fishing tackle shop sold loads of Relums...
Or in fact just gunshops, I lived in Medway in Kent and we had 7 shops within 7 miles....now there all gone!

[Papa g]

Eley Wasp, Webley Specials or Milbro Caledonian were my major decision in the Seventies.

I’d add Marksman pellets to that list, certainly used all of the above in my .22 meteor, that gun shot more vermin than any other I’ve owned since, certainly kept my ferrets well fed back in the 70s, great times I miss them.
Regard Graham

[Hsing-ee]

I’d add Marksman pellets to that list, certainly used all of the above in my .22 meteor, that gun shot more vermin than any other I’ve owned since, certainly kept my ferrets well fed back in the 70s, great times I miss them.
Regard Graham

'A well-fed ferret' is a concept completely unknown to today's generation. Maybe analogous to an iPhone with a full charge?

[MartynB]

'A well-fed ferret' is a concept completely unknown to today's generation. Maybe analogous to an iPhone with a full charge?

Like it

[Papa g]

'A well-fed ferret' is a concept completely unknown to today's generation. Maybe analogous to an iPhone with a full charge?

Brilliant!😂😂😂
Regards Graham

[gunshop]

I’d add Marksman pellets to that list, certainly used all of the above in my .22 meteor, that gun shot more vermin than any other I’ve owned since, certainly kept my ferrets well fed back in the 70s, great times I miss them.
Regard Graham

this enough choice of Marksman pellets for you?

https://www.airgunspares.com/airguns...html?brand=467

[richywilk]

The Daddy scope mounts of the day were Ernst Apel before sportsmatch took over

[Shed tuner]

has anyone mentioned drilling out transfer ports ?

Sure made the gun kick, so it's got to be more powerful, right ? lucky we never had chronos back then

[TonyL]

has anyone mentioned drilling out transfer ports ?

Sure made the gun kick, so it's got to be more powerful, right ? lucky we never had chronos back then

Luckily, being generally cautious, I never fell into that trap. I wonder how many did? And big, OTT springs?