Is .223 worth it?

[danfick]

So, I'm not a re-loader but I do want to become one at some point. Currently, I am a .223 and .303 shooter and intent to get a .308 once space allows for it.

The .223 leaves a little to be improved upon I'm sure (shooting ggg milsurp ammo at the moment but getting good results). The .303 is definitely due some improvement, although I am sure user error provides a definite amount of variance, however I am wondering if it is worth reloading for .223? I enjoy targets but don't currently have the pleasure of a permission to use it over, but would definitely compete with it more once time available.

My question is, do any of you reload for .223 for target purposes? And, do you get significant improvements or do you do it mainly for cost or improved range for the .223?

Thanks,

Dan

[Daryll]

If you're planning on reloading for .303 and/or .308, you may as well spend another £30-40 and also get a set of dies for .223... almost everything else is usable for all calibres.

As you know, different guns prefer different ammo... it may be that your Howa loves GGG Nato spec, but you may find that you can create a load that really hits a sweet spot... if you try some loads but still think GGG is the best, then you can just sell the dies.


And yes, I reload for .223 and .308.


HTH

[DedIdick]

So, I'm not a re-loader but I do want to become one at some point. Currently, I am a .223 and .303 shooter and intent to get a .308 once space allows for it.

The .223 leaves a little to be improved upon I'm sure (shooting ggg milsurp ammo at the moment but getting good results). The .303 is definitely due some improvement, although I am sure user error provides a definite amount of variance, however I am wondering if it is worth reloading for .223? I enjoy targets but don't currently have the pleasure of a permission to use it over, but would definitely compete with it more once time available.

My question is, do any of you reload for .223 for target purposes? And, do you get significant improvements or do you do it mainly for cost or improved range for the .223?

Thanks,

Dan

Yes.

However I use GGG for service rifle type shooting up to 300 yards; after that (up to 600 yards) I use reloads (significant improvement in accuracy). Magazine length reloads I use 75gn Hornady HPBTs and for single loaded rounds I normally use a 77gn sierra HPBT; though have experimented with 80 & 90 gn bullets but got good results with the 77gn Sierra.

75/77gn bullet in a decent case with about 24gns of Varget, good to go.

My 223 has 1 in 8 and 1 in 7 twist barrels.

[joe public]

Its all down to accuracy, it can cost a small fortune getting the load right for your rifles, but once achieved & recepie is on target groupings are better..if your a paper puncher forget it, unless you do comps etc, if a hunter, it gives you satisfaction & assurance the lead hits the spot ..good luck.

[yorkieRM]

I am by no means a reloading expert, but +1 for the accuracy comments, but agree it can turn out as more of an expense than a money saver on the smaller calibres.

Reloading will always help you to achieve the best from whatever calibre you own.

I reload .223, I have a 1:8 twist on my rem 700. And while the GGG service ammo comes out really well, I am still experimenting with my loads...But to me its part of the fun of shooting.

Another point to note, when I started out, it was suggested to me that .223 was a great calibre to learn to reload from, as its almost impossible to over charge.


happy shooting.

yorkierm

[taz2]

Its all down to accuracy, it can cost a small fortune getting the load right for your rifles, but once achieved & recepie is on target groupings are better..if your a paper puncher forget it, unless you do comps etc, if a hunter, it gives you satisfaction & assurance the lead hits the spot ..good luck.

Why wouldn't you want accuracy if you're not competing?

[Parabuteo]

Sorry but this is a no brainer (to me from a service rifel angle).

I shoot CSR both with a .303 and a 5.56x45 (.223 if you have to) and would not consider using factory ammo unless it was free (we occasionally get given mill surp) for the following reasons.

Accuracy

I hear all the pap about it being fine within 2 MOA etc etc, and multi position accounting for a greater drop in accuracy than the ammo....fine. Crack on then. You see it again and again. A mill surp fed rifle producing a medicore group that is better centred being panned hollow by a much less well centered (but much tighter) group from a rifle that likes its ammo.

Sure, at the close ranges where you are shooting off hand you may induce bigger errors than the ammo, but at 200 (against a fig 14 for the bisley bullet) or 300+ unless your rifle "Particularly likes" a brand of ammo, you are better off hand loading.

This is usually the excuse from them that can but cant be arsed.

Consistency

No brainer, I trust my ammo and having seen some GGG split out of the box.... The point is that generally, my rounds fall where the elevation is set. I can rely on it and that is worth the effort....and If it goes wrong I know who to blame

Suitability for the rifle

One issue we have is the need to cycle the rifle smoothly and sometimes rapidy with a hot chamber. A lot of service ammo that is designed to 5.56x45 NATO standards can be quite hot and soft. The net result is whereas my rifle (even when hot) takes a flick like a biathlon rifle to cycle it, some will be hauling on their cocking handles like a rampant bull. You can load, to mag length, and still get decent accuracy.

Avaiability

I dont run out of ammo, just components which I stockpile to cover a season. I also have alternative loads if required, although my rifle is chambered to work with most .223/5.56x45NATO without sticking.

Cost

I use 2 bullets, 77gn SMK and 75gn PPU. In recent tests (had it been a blind test I would not have found any) I found little between the 2 at 500 so I really wont worry about the PPU at 100/200 which is where a lot of practice takes place. In reality even a mediocre match bullet should be better than an SS109 FMJ, particularly if loaded for your rifle. The 77s would be better at 300+ but even so.

The damned prices keep going up, but there is plenty of brass about FOC, but even at 10p a case, shoot it 5 times, you are looking at significant saving with match grade ammo against mill surp or Mill std.

The only real bugger is the time it takes which I have. I used to load at circa 25p a pop, that has obviously gone up but then so has the cost of factory ammo...and some. It can almost be on a par with 7.62x51.

One thing I would always consider (if you are forced to load to mag length) is to use a lee factory crimp die and introduce a light crimp. I Load mag length for all of my rifles and they group better crimped than not across the board.

So yes, if you are shooting relatively high volumes of ammo and need to satisfy certain parameters, hand load. We get through circa 100 per match and between 100-200 per practice. If you are shooting low volumes or have a factory load that cannot be beaten...try it anyway.

Sadly Mod 262 Blackhills is neither cheap nor plentifull and I have nearly chomped through the box load I was given.....

[kindwarf]

In my opinion if you want to target shoot up to 100yds buy milsurp or cheap ammo on the market, if you want to shoot 200 to 600yds accurately reload using heavy bullets 75 80grn, but for that you will need a fast twist barrel 1 in 7 or 1 in 8.

[taz2]

I cannot believe people will settle for mediocre groups at any distance.
If you can't rely on the ammunition to produce the accuracy the rifle, what's the point? We are regularly pushing towards the limits of 223, and need reliable loads to do it. A reload can cost only a few pence more per shot than a rubbish factory or milsurp round. You wouldn't run a Supercar on kerosene would you?

[severnsider]

I've used several brands of ammunition in my Sako 85 (1:12 twist) but home loads have proved to be considerably more accurate at 300-400 yards. The brass seems to live forever, and I get good results with 52gr SMK or 52gr A-Max (but you cannot get these any more) and 23.5 - 23.8gr N133.
It is also OK with lighter (40gr V-Max) but didn't like the 69gr projectiles, which I believe are better-suited (as others have said above) to a faster twist.
Definitely worth giving it a go!

[Parabuteo]

I've used several brands of ammunition in my Sako 85 (1:12 twist) but home loads have proved to be considerably more accurate at 300-400 yards. The brass seems to live forever, and I get good results with 52gr SMK or 52gr A-Max (but you cannot get these any more) and 23.5 - 23.8gr N133.
It is also OK with lighter (40gr V-Max) but didn't like the 69gr projectiles, which I believe are better-suited (as others have said above) to a faster twist.
Definitely worth giving it a go!

Yea, most of ours are built to work with 77grainers. It helps a bit at the longer distances, then a lot of folk will use cheap stuff at 100. When you think that the standard for the L85 is 36mm at 30yds for acceptance.....I would be worried if I was that large at 100, mag rested with a 4x scope.

I dont spend ages chasing it to be honest, a reliable 1MOA is fine for our targets and you are stuck with mag length anyway, although I know some that have had excellent results at 1000yds with JLKs hand fed.

Actually I would say that a half decent handload is still cheaper than a lot of surplus, and dont forget that GGG 62gn is 5.56x45 NATO in effect, so the standards will be just that. 77s have jumped from near 21p to 30 odd, and the 75gn PPU came in at 14p and is now 19p......wish I had bought several thousand to be honest as they are still a better and cheaper proposition for practice.

[Ranyhyn]

It's a slippery slope to another addiction.
Don't do it.
Fair warning

[Black Beard]

Don't forget, military 5.56 is externally the same as .223 but is designed for a different chamber. It will give higher pressures in a .223 chamber than a military rifle. It will probably also be designed for maximum velocity at minimum cost, so expect pressures to be high anyway.

BB

[Parabuteo]

Don't forget, military 5.56 is externally the same as .223 but is designed for a different chamber. It will give higher pressures in a .223 chamber than a military rifle. It will probably also be designed for maximum velocity at minimum cost, so expect pressures to be high anyway.

BB

Our rifles are chambered/proofed accordingly by probably the most knowledgeable chap in the UK. You are smack on though. Many will get a couple through a bog .223 standard AR then wonder why it starts sticking when it gets warm.

Not all military ammo is SS109 in any event. MOD262 is also produced in brown boxes and used in matches and operations along with stacks of other variations.

[tacfoley]

Our rifles are chambered/proofed accordingly by probably the most knowledgeable chap in the UK. You are smack on though. Many will get a couple through a bog .223 standard AR then wonder why it starts sticking when it gets warm.

Not all military ammo is SS109 in any event. MOD262 is also produced in brown boxes and used in matches and operations along with stacks of other variations.

^ This.

tac