Why was the Webley Viscount such a flop?

[bill57]

I think there is a reason Air Arms doesn’t have a side lever?

Air Arms Bora?

[Muskett]

The walnut Vicount is a good looking rifle.
They shoot OK. And that was the problem, they only shot OK.
The HW77 shot better and killed it and nearly everything else.

[MDriskill]

Apologies in advance, as I actually posted this in another thread yesterday! But it works here too:

Those lamenting the quality of late Webley rifles might be interested in these quotes from an article entitled, “Swedes Home In On The Tracker,” written by Captain Anders Dahlman, published in the February 1991 issue of “Airgun World:”

“While the same brands of air rifles are on the Swedish market as in the UK, almost every Swedish airgunner goes for the Webleys. In fact, the .22 Webley Tracker deluxe is the number one air rifle over here. Due to poor balance, simple varnished stocks and two-stage triggers, German air rifles are not popular at all. They have not proven to be that reliable, either. At one time a few Swedes bought HW 77’s, HW 80’s and HW 85’s, but most of them have now switched to the Webley Tracker...

Most Swedes consider the Webleys to be superior when it comes to handling qualities, blueing, fit, finish and balance, and I certainly agree...

The Webley Tracker deluxe has proven utterly reliable and accurate in the hands of Swedish airgunners, and is definitely the country’s most popular air rifle. ... At the last FT competition I attended, more that 85% used these air rifles. The remainder had BSA’s or Air Arms, but you could not find one single HW or Diana. Oh yes, some things are the other way around over here!”

Well all just one fellow’s opinions of course, but rather interesting ones! It’s worth noting that the walnut-stocked Tracker deluxe seems to have been the main choice. By the way Swedish law at the time banned all air rifle hunting, and limited airguns by velocity rather than muzzle energy. The maximum allowed was 200 m/sec or about 660 FPS, which of course favored larger calibers.

[MDriskill]

I think there is a reason Air Arms doesn’t have a side lever? But have to agree on Michelle.

As a point of historical interest, sidelevers at one point made up Air Arms’ entire range!

The company was the successor to “Sussex Armory,” which designed a sidelever tap-loader with a military-style stock called the Jackal. Under the AA banner, this action was further developed in the early 1980's into several different models via different stocks, barrel lengths, and an optional self-loading mechanism. The Bora and Mistral were beech-stocked models. The Camargue had a walnut Tyrolean stock, and the Khamsin lovely walnut thumbhole woodwork. All excellent guns, some being imported by Great Lakes Airguns into the US in the 80’s.

I agree that sidelevers can be a little clunky looking, but I’ve always thought the Tracker/Viscount action incorporated it rather elegantly into the overall lines, and the Air Arms rifles were similar. A practical advantage of this design, too, is elimination of the long slot under the fore end typically seen on barrel-cockers and underlevers.

[mrto]

I think you hit the nail on the head with fashion dictating the popularity of shorter barrels. That sexy barrel weight also added to the Tracker's looks and it was marketed as a handy little carbine. A walnut stocked Tracker deluxe is certainly one of the best looking air rifles Webley ever made IMHO.

I never got around to buying the walnut stocked Beeman/Williams aperture sighted Viscount I always wanted at the back of my mind!

Towards the end of production, Webley dropped the Viscount name and marketed two Trackers: the Tracker Carbine and the rifle version, so you will see long barrelled 'Viscounts' marked as Trackers.

Definitely an underrated classic.

John

Quite right. I have a long barrelled Tracker,mint still with hang tag,but no box,unfortunately!

[Garvin]

Apologies in advance, as I actually posted this in another thread yesterday! But it works here too:

Those lamenting the quality of late Webley rifles might be interested in these quotes from an article entitled, “Swedes Home In On The Tracker,” written by Captain Anders Dahlman, published in the February 1991 issue of “Airgun World:”

“While the same brands of air rifles are on the Swedish market as in the UK, almost every Swedish airgunner goes for the Webleys. In fact, the .22 Webley Tracker deluxe is the number one air rifle over here. Due to poor balance, simple varnished stocks and two-stage triggers, German air rifles are not popular at all. They have not proven to be that reliable, either. At one time a few Swedes bought HW 77’s, HW 80’s and HW 85’s, but most of them have now switched to the Webley Tracker...

Most Swedes consider the Webleys to be superior when it comes to handling qualities, blueing, fit, finish and balance, and I certainly agree...

The Webley Tracker deluxe has proven utterly reliable and accurate in the hands of Swedish airgunners, and is definitely the country’s most popular air rifle. ... At the last FT competition I attended, more that 85% used these air rifles. The remainder had BSA’s or Air Arms, but you could not find one single HW or Diana. Oh yes, some things are the other way around over here!”

Well all just one fellow’s opinions of course, but rather interesting ones! It’s worth noting that the walnut-stocked Tracker deluxe seems to have been the main choice. By the way Swedish law at the time banned all air rifle hunting, and limited airguns by velocity rather than muzzle energy. The maximum allowed was 200 m/sec or about 660 FPS, which of course favored larger calibers.

I'd be interested to hear from Swedes around at the time whether their recollection accords with that of Capn Dahlman.

I wouldn't want to impugn the man's integrity but his report can't have hurt Webley's PR efforts to challenge the dominance of Weihrauch springers. In fact it could almost have been written by Webley... "poor balance, simple varnished stocks and two-stage triggers, German air rifles are not popular at all. They have not proven to be that reliable, either."

Did Dahlman definitey exist?!

[MDriskill]

I'd be interested to hear from Swedes around at the time whether their recollection accords with that of Capn Dahlman.

I wouldn't want to impugn the man's integrity but his report can't have hurt Webley's PR efforts to challenge the dominance of Weihrauch springers. In fact it could almost have been written by Webley... "poor balance, simple varnished stocks and two-stage triggers, German air rifles are not popular at all. They have not proven to be that reliable, either."

Did Dahlman definitey exist?!

What? Surely you are not suggesting that mere advertising money can influence “truth” in the publishing world…! I’ve had similar thoughts, but decided to post those quotes at face value, LOL.



For what it’s worth, the cover of this issue sported an atmospheric photo of Capt. Dahlman’s lovely scoped walnut Tracker Deluxe, modified with a heavy Osprey barrel, with accompanying powder horn bearing his name! And as noted earlier in this thread, it appears the Tracker was genuinely more popular in Scandinavia than in the UK.

I should mention that the author described “field target,” as practiced in Sweden in those days, as a very informal event exclusively fired with sporter rifles from a standing position, often with open sights. He is not suggesting the Tracker would be competitive in the modern FT environment.

As an aside, at that time I subscribed to AGW. In those halcyon pre-internet days, I wrote an actual letter to the editor praising this article, noting that in those days of burgeoning PCP technology, etc., an occasional piece about the joys of older, simpler airgun technology was enjoyable. The letter was published, but “edited” to render me a slack-jawed hillbilly incapable of comprehending state-of-the-art airguns, field target competition, or the vastly superior English shooting scene. Follow-up letters from other readers confirmed my idiocy of course...but I'm not bitter!

[Garvin]

The letter was published, but “edited” to render me a slack-jawed hillbilly incapable of comprehending state-of-the-art airguns, field target competition, or the vastly superior English shooting scene.

You a slack-jawed hillbilly, Mike.

Never!

[Thegreg]

I should mention that the author described “field target,” as practiced in Sweden in those days, as a very informal event exclusively fired with sporter rifles from a standing position, often with open sights. He is not suggesting the Tracker would be competitive in the modern FT environment.

That was a very interesting article, thanks for sharing. I'm glad you clarified their definition of Field Target though...even as an ambassador for the Tracker I'd be the first to admit that'd it be completely hopeless as an FT rifle!

There are elements of truth in there. The finish of the Weihrauchs of the time (and even the modern day ones) couldn't hold a candle to that of the Webleys. They did have plain beech stocks, average bluing, and did not balance as well as the Tracker did. Why anyone would prefer the agricultural trigger of a Tracker over a 2-stage Rekord does sound rather suspect though!

Cheers
Greg