Interesting discussion this - I think, if you pick the bones out of the sceptics argument, you will find that they are not denying that sub inch 100 yard groups (or 1.5" 150 yards FAC) are technically achievable. Stands to sense if you put enough pellets down range in five shot groups on a perfect day, eventually (after a few days) you'll get some to group under the magic inch. I expect this is what the long-shooting weekend will show.
BUT the real deal with this is that you are simply shooting a small number of shots at a fixed point and then landing the pellets in a group on a sheet of paper. It demonstrates the ability of your equipment more than anything else. What is in considerable doubt is the ability to consistently land pellets on a specific target at these ranges i.e. reading the wind over this distance and making an individual adjustment to each shot to land it in a bullseye in a group under one inch. As the original poster indicated, he needed 150 shots to land 10 in a group on his paper. Sniper Wolf did some brilliant shooting but as stated by Buddy Boy, his group was nearly 2".
Is it possible to achieve sub 1 inch groups consistently whilst also landing your shots on a specific target area with a sub 12ft lb rifle? I don't think so.
I'd love to be wrong, but I've got to agree with Terry, Gary and Ben, wind is the factor, and not just wind, breeze, light breeze and even the slightest shift in the air. It will take your pellets left and right or up and down and, while they may still group, they will not land consistently on the target.
This is why Harry ruffled so many feathers, he claimed to be able to combine grouping at range with pin-point accuracy on a target area and then use this skill to take down live prey. I'm not dismissing his claims because I am not able to make a judgement on the weather conditions in an elevated location in Australia but I very much doubt he would be able to demonstrate his findings in this country.
Looking forward to seeing where this one goes!
But he isn't, is he? He was shooting at 100 yards, not 150, where, after many, many attempts he reported 'I managed to get 1.5 inch group, then called it a day. It may have been luck,probably was but I certainly am not marksman, and couldn’t replicate that same group the next day, but got groups between 4 and 5 inches.'
This is a long, long way from any sort of consistent grouping at 150 yards, Zico, and a world away from producing reliable, hunting standard accuracy at such a range.
I'm sorry, and I think you'll find that I was always respectful to Harry during his short time on here, but having extensively researched this area of airgunning, I don't believe it's possible to produce reliable, humane accuracy, under field conditions, at 150 yards with any 27ft.lbs. air rifle.
Experimental grouping is tremendous fun and pushing the limits of performance is what I do as part of my living, but using a live animal as a target is just not on. There are too many variables.
Hunting is not about what's technically, theoretically or occasionally possible, it's what really happens when you squeeze that trigger. At 150 yards, in the real world of hunting, what's really most likely to happen is a wounded animal.
Terry,
You cannot dismiss Harry's claims on my performance,as I am just average. I know there are much better shooters than me. Look at Sniper wolf, sitting getting 2 inches with a sub 12 rifle. I would like to see him do it benchrest with a 27ft.lbs rilfe and see what results he gets.
What's the point Brian? there will then be accusations of thread doctoring to put him in a bad light.
Ask yourself this.
Why would I, or anybody else, seek to villify another shooter?. Envy? I don't think so. For the record, and the last time, I had doubts about the old fantasist when he started rambling.
I cut in when he started making claims that ultimately could damage our sport. Specifically that he is capable of punching a 1" target at 150 yards. Not grouping, not having a few sighters, but straight off the bat.
His second was the claim about never missing a rabbit over 100 yards. Totally risible and an encouragement to the gullible (and boy do we have a few) to start dropping pellets into live targets, completely against the work we all do to promote responsible hunting.
I will comment no more.
Terry,
when you tried this, what results were you getting with 60 ft.lbs?
Hey Gary nice to see some more reasoned argument from ya, rather than the stuff on the Harry thread....was suspecting you were pre menstral during that period
My 2 bobs, I cant recall him saying that he could hit a 1 inch target at 150... was it not a 1.25 inch group at 124yds that he did once? Cannae mind exactlly and without the original thread, no way of checking.
The second comment you stated re the 100 yd bunnys, was nigh pretty late on in the discussion, just before he got banned, and did this not original say the 'f'word and was edited. Not saying this kind of thing was right, just trying to go with the accuracy of what was said.
Also, I don't think Harry is any kind of new age messiah, but he has opened up the sport a little into new areas, pushing the rifles to the limit re target shooting. And peeps are starting to show some decent results on not absoltelly ideal conditions.
Although hunting at these ranges may be a different matter, as right enough the thing we are all pretty much agreed on is wind/air variance which can cause significant shift. However another country, and different attitudes to there quarry, perhaps he should have heeded the warning and steered away from that subject, as this is UK based and he probably doesnt understand the reasoning behind why we can't shed what we do, in any kind of bad light.
PS Gary like the new sig, better than the old one.... but what is a Dinlo?
Worse than when I wound down the rifle to 38 ft.lbs., mate.
I was using Bisley Magnums, graded, sorted and individually weighed - yes, it's tragic but so am I when I'm in 'nth-degree' mode.
My average 10-shot groups at 100 yards, shot indoors with 60 ft.lbs. measured just under 3 inches. As I say, some pellets landed on top of each other, but others veered off to all points around the 1 inch disc target, sometimes by as much as 6 inches.
Outdoors, using range flags every 10 yards to assess the wind, those 'rogue' pellets would often miss by a foot, when I could feel or see not a trace of wind. Most frustrating, I can tell you.