Long range airgun shooting

[C3PO_1]

I don't remember Harry ever claiming that he could perfectly read the wind ... I simply remember him saying that more times than not he was capable of sub 1" groups @ 150 yards using a 27tl/lb rifle in ideal, windless conditions at 4,000 feet.

[C3PO_1]

Didn't Sadam Hussain try that?? Made in Sheffield I believe !!!!

LOL, good one!

[RichardH]

I'm a simple, practical man, Richard, and I prefer to see things happen rather than being dictated to by theory.

I'm not convinced it's impossible, but having tried - and tried extremely hard - to do it in the real world, rather than via theory, so far it has remained impossible to create consistent, sub-inch, 10-shot groups, at 100 yards indoors or out. Thus, the idea of adding another 50 yards to that range and producing groups of a similar size, outdoors, has to arouse the 'curiosity' in me, surely?

150 yards is ambitious to say the least, I suspect reality is close to 100 but physics dictates it must be possible unless theres an evil vortex that applies to airgun pellets once they pass the magic 50 yards.

To shoot heavier bullets in centrefire calibres its standard practice to up the twist rate from 1/12 or 1/14 to 1/8 or 1/7 now given I would expect a heavy pellet to be essential to acheiving this why wouldnt this apply to airguns too?

By increasing the weight of the bullet from 55 to 80 grains and the twist rate from 1/12 to 1/7 a .223 rifle goes from a 300 yard gun to one with potential past 600.

Now has anyone got an airgun with a fast twist barrel?

Richard

[RichardH]

Someone send for Pneuguy

[Sid]

What interests me is this :-

I have got somewhere near reasonably consistent 1 inch groups at 100 yards with FAC air, under still outdoor conditions, and have seen a 1 inch group shot with the equipment I was using. I never felt the grouping was out of my control.

Terry Doe, in his experiments found that there was a dispersion at 100 yards which he felt WAS out of the shooters control. This also with FAC air, a better shooter and optimum indoor conditions.

It's difficult to reconcile the two, and on the basis of these specific cases I would start to make the assumption that I'm lying

If we can assume that I'm not lying, then how could I do it under less favourable circumstances ?

Coming up with a theory might be interesting - one thing I noticed about the Career I used was that floating the barrel gave a significant improvement in accuracy at longer ranges, one which wasn't apparent at normal hunting distances. Beyond that I really don't know, and if Terry was using a rifle with a free floated barrel then that theory is dead in the water

[Harry's Lad]

So far, nobody has managed what Harry has alleged. His only proof comes from chairgunner and his own claims.

So what’s with these oblique swipes at ChairGun? What has ChairGun to do with the discussion anyway? Having had several email conversations with Harry over the years, I have absolutely no doubt as to his claims or integrity. As far as I could read in the previous long-range thread (before it was deleted), he referred only to ChairGun used as a tool to compliment his considerable ability. Zeroing an air-rifle at 150 Yards would be a laborious and time-consuming task without some assistance but – even if he didn’t use ChairGun – he’d still be a gentleman and an excellent marksman. So, why does ChairGun qualify for these snide remarks?

Confused in Murcia
Dave

[RichardH]

Lionel

I am happy to oblige, please find an extract from an advertising broadsheet for various velocity and energy levels on the new Beaumont air rifle based on the Air Ranger/RWS 500:

.22 - 75 ft/lbs. 30,5gr. Pellet in excess 1050 ft/s. (5,50mm.)
.22 - 90 ft/lbs. 30,5gr. Pellet in excess 1150 ft/s. (5,50mm.)
.22 -100 ft/lbs. 40,0gr. Pellet in excess 1050 ft/s. (5,70mm.)
.25 -130 ft/lbs. 50,0gr. Pellet in excess 1100 ft/s. (6,35mm.)
.25 -120 ft/lbs. 36,0gr. Pellet in excess 1200 ft/s. (6,35mm.)
.30 -175 ft/lbs. 110 gr. Pellet in excess 850 ft/s. (7,80mm.)

I understand that the velocities are the minimum specified for a string of shots where the velocity will increase over the series before falling due to the power curve. Over 1300ft/s has been recorded with 36 grain .25 ammunition.

This gun has been developed for Export markets and for longer range shooting. Accuracies of 25mm groups are acheived at 150 metre ranges. Alfred the gun's developer reports that these accuracies are generally better than achieved by firearms.

Regards

David

Richard

[keith66]

An interesting thread, my experience of long range shooting with an air rifle has been mainly over a muddy creek with a couple of friends and could be construed as long range plinking. Best results were with a tuned BSA imp model D built in 1910, this rifle has an aperture sight on it with flip up tower so you can dial in the elevation. Using the back position the angle of elevation must have been 10 to 15 degrees but it was possible to hit cans fairly consistently at around 100 yards, of course you could see the fall of shot on the mud and adjust acordingly. good fun. When you thihk about it shooting an air gun at long range is akin to shooting a centrefire rifle at 1000 yards plus!

[Woodie]

Thats exactly what I said in Gary C long range get together 1k bet, Alfred De Vries can do 200 metres not yards with his beaumont., but it is 150 ft.lbs, so you can't really compare. Gary's response was "apples and oranges", which I agree with, however decent groups can be obtained with air rifles at long long ranges.

[Terry D]

I have got somewhere near reasonably consistent 1 inch groups at 100 yards with FAC air,

Sid, rather than putting yourself down as a fibber , study the bold section of the above quote. As a sad-to-the-point-of-tragic airgun tester, I would permit no inconsistency whatsoever during my 100-yard quest.

If nine pellets piled on top of each other and a single one went a bit bonkers, then that mad slug was included in the group sizing - unless I 'called' it out through shooter error. I was ruthless and no 'fudging' of the results was allowed, no matter how frustrating it all became. I wanted to produce a series of tight groups at 100 yards, just as I could at 50, but I couldn't do it with the same consistency.

Floating barrels were used, and they helped, mainly with the high-power rifles which used more air per shot and were most likely to cause microscopic barrel-shift as their reservoirs contracted and expanded during charging/discharging. At least that's one theory. There's barrel harmonics to consider, too, of course, plus the difference in the pellet-shape between those fired from pre-charged rifles and spring-piston or gas-ram ones.

My head's starting to hurt from the memory of it all.

[AAS410]

Sorry John, Don't see your name anywhere on my post. Still always up for a challange. My point is, where do you stop, Some people out there still think they can shoot rabbits at 100+. I will be more than happy to put up £20 if any one with a springer can put a group in at 100 yds (6 pellet group) of 2" or less. You can use ANY FT position. Any one interested this can be arranged at Kypeside shooting ground. Any one.

Regards

George

[Graham2]

From being someone that wanted to hear more about all this, I've now lost the will to live! Maybe I should go and lie down, could be a good idea anyway, as I wrote off the Range Rover today.

[Lumberjack]

I will be more than happy to put up £20 if any one with a springer can put a group in at 100 yds (6 pellet group) of 2" or less

Looks like it's time to get me ol' Webley Tracker out again

Make it £40 George and I'll shoot backward over my left shoulder using a mirror.

Just one question. Telescopic or open sights, which would you prefer?

[AAS410]

Just for you, I will make it £40, and throw in a book. "Carpentry For Beginners" Are you up for it.

Regards

George

[GEOFF]

I will have a go at paper shooting at 150 yards as soon as the weather get better, i will get a dvd recording of this aswell.
i will use my Condor .22 with a 21" barrel which is PTFE lined and has 100g steel hammer with two PTFE rings, i have three bottles
1st has a valve stem of 5.5mm runs at 65fpe
2nd has a valve stem of 6.5mm runs at 75fpe
3nd has a valve stem of 7.2mm 120fpe
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...E/DSC00171.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...E/DSC00170.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...E/DSC00169.jpg
There is a few member on here that have shot this rifle and know what its capable of