BASC urges all shooters to respond to Home Office (includes guidelines)

[RichardH]

Mine went to Blunkett personally a couple of weeks ago.

The institute for the blind transcribed it into Braille for £30 (not bad for 4 A4 pages)

A feeble attempt to get it actually into the main mans hands but worth a go.

I'd also remind you all there are proposals in that document to move semi auto .22 rimfires, semi auto/pump shotguns (regardless of capacity), long barreled revolvers and seriously big centrefire rifles (50BMG) to section 5.

It is worth considering that these restrictions will certainly not be the end of things and the total apathy displayed by many on this site saddens me particularly since BASC and the like have championed the cause of airgunners for as long as I can remember yet very few are even members.

Perhaps this is a good time to repay some of that help.

Richard

[Morayman]

I originally wrote this in a pessimistic frame of mind, but today I'm more positive and agree that we must all speak up.


Moray

[bodypilot]

here is the reply from my MP...


Dear Mr. Pengelly

I agree with you completely. As the owner of a shotgun and someone who has shot with airguns, rifles, and shotguns all my life I find the approach to this issue of the Government ridiculous. On the Home Affairs Select committee I asked the Chief of the Met Police how many guns on the streets of London were stolen shotguns and he said "none".

I will write to the Home Secretary attaching your letter as a very good response to the consultation that they are now holding. I will send you any response.

Best wishes

David Cameron
MP for Witney
-----Original Message-----
From: bodypilot [mailto:bodypilot@f2s.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 15:22
To: camerond@parliament.uk
Subject: Firearms


Dear Mr Cameron,

As one of your constituents, I'm writing to express my views regarding the Governments' proposals that threaten further restricting legitimate users of firearms and shotguns.

Since the last firearms act, when lawfully-owned pistols were banned; (or, rather, re-classified) instances of armed crime, particularly involving handguns, have risen sharply. This is a trend which follows suit from every piece of firearms legislation since Hansard's began. As it stands, we have both the harshest and least sensible Laws of any European nation. The expanding ammunition debacle amply illustrates this last point. With these facts in mind, the idea that legislation is to be passed in the name of public safety is, frankly, laughable. I might add that in the current government's last election manifesto, shooter's rights were effectively guaranteed.

There is absolutely no need to control further the purchase of shotguns by a group who is already strictly scrutinised before they are granted their licence in the first place. It is a cliché, but it is surely not the gun that damages, but rather the irresponsible individual behind it. The number of guns that they may or may not possess is entirely irrelevant to public safety. You may think that only one gun suits all purposes, but this simply is not the case. One cannot effectively play a round of golf using only one club, and shooting enjoys infinitely more variety than the former.

We must disassociate the firearms of responsible licence holders (which they necessarily are) from those on 'the streets,' waved by an entirely different group of people altogether.


Yours sincerely,



Mr Robin Pengelly

Witney, Oxon.

[Andrew006]

My letter, similar in content, went off a few days ago to my local MP. I will publish on here his response.


regards

Andy
(new BASC member)

[jonmalone]

In return for my 13 pages of thoughts comments and suggestions I got a 2 para unsigned acknowledgement.

"Thank you for your letter responding to the firearms consultation paper.

I acknowledge receipt of your commenfs and suggestions which have now been filed for consderation. I am grateful for your views and thank you once again for taking part in this consultation.

Zoe Dormon
(Firearms Section)"

Standard letter, well at least I know they have my response.

Jon

[delta1]

I sent this to my MP

Dear Sir,

I am a constituent, and also the Club Secretary of the Range Masters Air Rifle Club here in Notts.

Following Labours manifesto commitment “not to restrict shooting sports” I am pleased to read the proposal that airguns are not to be licensed in the Home Office consultation “Controls on Firearms”.
This will allow our Police to further intensify their efforts toward greater enforcement of the existing laws regarding the illegal use of firearms.

However I wish to express my concerns at the suggestion that gun shops should be masked as sex shops are, and that there should be a minimum entrance age for gun shops.

Airgun shooting is a safe sport, requiring patience, application and practice to achieve success. These qualities are exactly what some of our children would do well to learn in a properly supervised way.
My 11 year old son shoots, and visits shops with me. He sees a group of normal people, handling firearms safely and behaving in a responsible manner. This serves to de-mystify the gun, and present it as a tool, nothing more. Surely I should not leave him outside unsupervised?

We need to separate the legal shooter, going about his lawful business disturbing no one and the “Gangsta” with his illegal weapon.
Hiding gun shops behind frosted glass will not do this.

I respectfully ask that you pass my concerns on to The Home Secretary.

Thankyou for Your Time,
Richard Harley

I got this back,


Dear Mr Harley,

I understand the points you made in your recent letter and enclose a copy of an article I wrote for the June edition of "Country Landowner" which sets out my views.

I will be meeting the Home Office Ministers soon to discuss the review of the firearms legislation.

If you would like to discuss the matter in more detail, please give me a ring

Yours Sincerely

Paddy Tipping MP


Not Earth shattering, but a response none the less

Richard.

[Simon Clarke]

I would take him up on the offer and ring him, or arrange to meet him at a constituency surgery.
Paddy Tipping is a member of the parliamentary all-party group on shooting and conservation, and a gifted clay shot who was introduced to the sport by BASC a year or two ago.
It would be worth talking the issues over with him.

[Muddy Gumboots]

I emailed the MP for Salisbury, Robert Key, just before kick-off yesterday evening. This morning at 8am I got this reply, which had been composed and sent just before 5am, which shows a greater alertness in the morning than I had:

Thanks for getting in touch. My views on firearms are very much 'on the record'. It is irresponsible use, not responsible ownership, that is the problem. The only time I have voted against my Party four times in a row was on gun law following the Hungerford Massacre. We outlawed many gun clubs - and what happened? Gun crime rose. So I am very sceptical about current Home Office proposals - and that will be my stance when any legislation reaches Parliament. Incidentally, I own and use a shotgun which I use each winter going shooting with local farmers. Keeps me properly in touch with countryside issues. Best wishes from Robert Key.

Any other BBS users in the Salisbury area who want to write to Mr Key about this can email him at rob@robertkey.com.

[delta1]

Thankyou for the heads up Simon, I will go and see him at a surgery, Its about time I met my MP!

Richard

[roger 62]

Please read the BASC response very carefully - the BASC response appears to support all airguns producing over 1 joule of energy (0.73 Ft/Lbs!!) being treated as FAC.

The key question is are they supporting airgun sports in the UK or are they supporting the HO proposals ?

As a BASC member I've asked them to clarify their position and would urge all other BBS / BASC members to do likewise.

Assuming I read it right looks like we're on our own guys


R

[roger 62]

Response from BASC

>This relates to the legal definition of a firearm - " a lethal barrelled weapon, capable of discharging a projectile". At the moment there is no set definition of lethality. we are recommending that a muzzle energy of 1 joule should be taken as the accepted minimum definition. This is not a power limit on airguns - they are already classed as firearms in the eyes of the law. It would adopt an accepted (in other European countries) minimum definition for lethality which would exclude airsoft and bb guns, spud guns etc from firearms legislation and make life less complicated. I repeat it is not and would not be taken as a maximum power limit.

Still concerned this is a backdoor route to increasing restrictions (FAC, cabinets etc)

If all airguns are firearms then presumably all require FAC??

[Simon Clarke]

No - the current UK legal definition of a firearm is a "lethal barrelled weapon" capable of firing a projectile.

Airguns are already classed as firearms, under this definition, by law. Different classes (or sections) of firearms are treated differently for access, certification, storage etc.
There is no difference in law between an offence (eg armed trespass, threats to kill) committed with an airgun or any other firearm.

The problem is that there is no formal definition of "lethal". Under EC rules it is accepted that anything incapable of producing more than 1 joule of muzzle energy is a toy. We are suggesting this should be adopted in the UK. this will exclude airsoft, most BB guns, spud guns and the like from being caught up in firearms legislation. There is no question of this becoming a maximum power limit for airguns.

[roger 62]

Hi Simon

Took your advice and spoke to Mike - he was very helpful and explained what that clause was all about - we also discussed that as it's a consultation period we need to make our views known.

Trying to motivate shooters attending UKHFT and Lea Valley to get involved and protect our sport hopefully other clubs will follow suit.

Cheers

Roger

[Lurch]

Done (but I won't bore you with my reply! ).

[deathshed]

im quit pleased with myself,a very informative responce sent today,not bad for an illiterate plonker.i said illiterate not illigitamate lol