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Thread: BASC urges all shooters to respond to Home Office (includes guidelines)

  1. #31
    Lurch Guest
    Letter to my local paper:

    Sir

    Orkney has one of the highest rates of legitimate firearms ownership in the United Kingdom yet we have no armed crime and very few firearms related incidents.

    The Labour government, in breach of its 2001 manifesto pledge that “We have no intention whatsoever of placing restrictions on the sports of angling and shooting." is now undertaking a review of firearms controls in the UK and has created a consultation document to which it is seeking responses, presumably so they can blame any new legislation on the public at large.

    In the forward to the document, David Blunkett claims that “We want to minimise bureaucracy for those who enforce and administer the law, and we don’t want to impose unnecessary burdens on those who possess and use guns lawfully”. However, the document goes on to introduce a whole raft of worrying proposals that, if enacted, would create even more unnecessary bureaucratic burden on the police and severely impact shooting and gun ownership in the county. Just a few of these include:

    · Compulsory training and regular testing of gun owners.
    · Imposing section one (rifle) controls on all remaining shotguns.
    · Prohibiting and confiscating all remaining semi automatic rifles and shotguns regardless of calibre or magazine capacity.
    · Making shotgun ammunition subject to quantity restrictions and ‘secure’ storage requirements.
    · Putting reloading components (and specifically primers) under firearms certificate controls.
    · Making it illegal to borrow a firearm or shotgun, even to use in the presence of the occupier of the land over which it is used.
    · Reducing the duration of firearms and shotgun certificates to two years.
    · Increasing the age and further restricting the circumstances under which young people can shoot. This also applies to air weapons.
    · ‘Practical’ shooting disciplines to be outlawed.
    · Making gun shops restrict access by age and prohibiting window displays (effectively making them subject to the same restrictions as sex shops).
    · Licensing all deactivated firearms and making all of them subject to the 1995 deactivation standards.

    The government are seeking responses to this document which can be found on the Home Office website at:

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs3/c...n_firearms.pdf

    Alternatively, copies can be requested from the Home Office at:

    Firearms Controls Consultation
    Home Office
    5th Floor
    50 Queen Anne's Gate
    London SW1H 9AT

    Responses can be e-mailed to the Home Office at:

    firearmscontrolsconsultation@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

    I would urge all shooters and firearm owners in Orkney to respond to this document and to point out, politely yet firmly, why the suggested restrictions are unjust, unnecessary, unworkable and counterproductive.

    Yours faithfully

    Chris Werb
    3 Wards Park
    St. Margaret’s Hope.

  2. #32
    Zanx Guest
    Just done my bit because I'd like to be shooting in 12 months time and not have to hand in all my kit to Plod Gratis.

    And please don't go on about my attitude to replica weapons, they are a dying breed and are working against us more than we think. The sooner AK47 soft air guns and the like are out of circulation, the better.


    Dear Mr Gapes,
    As one of your constituents, I'm writing to express my views regarding the Governments' proposals that threaten further restricting legitimate users of air powered rifles and pistols. As a newcomer to the sport (target shooting) my main concerns are the rather extreme punishments (5 years imprisonment) meted out to owners of guns that are ,unintentionally or otherwise, over the 12ftlb limit. From conversations with more experienced shooters I have learnt that a gun that is well within the limit on one type of pellet, can be over the limit on another type of pellet. Given that the 12ftlb limit was arrived at because it was deemed to be the ideal level to cleanly and humanely dispatch vermin, as a member of the RSPB and National Trust, I’m sure you can appreciate the positive impact of vermin and pest control on our countryside. I feel that some leeway should be given to people who shoot vermin, or at the very least there should be a standard test using standardised pellets that all shooters should have access to. I would like to suggest that muzzle energy limit be raised to 18ftlb for rifles and that anyone using an air powered rifle that is over 14ftlb should be given the benefit of the doubt and given a caution and the opportunity to have their rifle adjusted so that it falls within the limit. Anyone using a rifle with 18ftlb of muzzle energy should be dealt with in the same way as someone who is over the 12ftlb limit at present. This allows shooters to use rifles that are on the agreed limit for a swift despatch of vermin without the need for worrying about falling foul of the law. Air pistols on the other hand are used mainly for target sports and I feel are sufficiently powered for their intended use.
    Bringing further legislation onto an already over legislated sport with the intention to reduce street crime is naïve to say the least. One has only to glance at the figures in the last 10 years to see that the banning of the legitimate ownership of handguns has had a negligible impact on gun crime. Coming down on ordinary, law abiding people who enjoy shooting in a safe environment is not the way to get guns off the streets. I believe that the main problem involves young people gaining access to replica weapons and using them to cause alarm and fear. Obviously something has to be done about this, the obvious answer is to withdraw replica guns from the market, this is slightly more complex that it may at first appear because one has to define “replica”. Another solution may be to prohibit the purchase of such guns to persons under the age of 21 and even then the buyer should be able to produce proof of age, address etc. I feel that improper use of pistols in particular is where the problem lies. Rifles are less easily concealed and don’t carry the street ‘cred’ that a replica pistol might, legislating against rifles is, in my opinion, a waste of Parliamentary time, if anything, the opportunity should be used to make clear the very obvious differences between a firearm and an air powered rifle or pistol.
    The punishment for open possession of a pistol in a public place with the intent to causing fear, should be increased and enforced, law abiding shooters have nothing to fear from legislation of this kind but everything to fear from poorly thought out, knee-jerk legislation that only serves to placate the very poorly subscribed pressure groups. I would request in the strongest possible terms that the Home Secretary take a long look at the problem areas and the cause of the problem areas and legislate accordingly. I suspect there are many deep seated social issues at the root of gun crime in the UK, I can assure you that people shooting rats in fields or paper targets on approved ranges is not one of them. I would respectfully request that you write to the Home Secretary and pass on my concerns.
    Yours truly,


    Oh, I DID put paragraphs in but the BBS took them out.
    Last edited by Zanx; 08-07-2004 at 10:17 PM.

  3. #33
    Zanx Guest
    I'd like to add that a little research into you MP's background might be of use, I just found out that my MP is a member of the RSPB and National Trust and have fashioned my reply to strike a small chord in that area. The letter to Blinky will be amended accordingly.

  4. #34
    RemMag is offline We're getting married, Weevie and me.
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    I'd like to add that a little research into you MP's background might be of use, I just found out that my MP is a member of the RSPB and National Trust and have fashioned my reply to strike a small chord in that area. The letter to Blinky will be amended accordingly.
    Good suggestion, although I have now found out that me and my MP have an awful lot in common, which is a bit worrying. I would certainly fancy a pint with him to chat about a few things!

  5. #35
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    The response I had from Caroline Flint, via my MP was that this is a consultation document to encourage open debate (ha ha) and does not contain any firm proposals.
    My MPs comment is that the letter from Caroline Flint is general and skates around the core issues


    It is easier to influence during the consultation process, ie now rather than to wait for the Government to publish its proposals

    In other words the Government wants to be seen to be doing something about gun crime prior to an election, but when the question is asked, "Well exactly what?"

    The respsonse is, "Oh its out on consultation."

    Yes Minister springs to mind very easily here.

    Why bother voting?
    Last edited by jackg; 12-07-2004 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #36
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    Good article about what is proposed in this months BASC mag. Do hope that they do not ban under 18s shooting. Having told Anna that she will be shooting under VERY supervised conditions in an indoor 10m range with at least two people looking after her in the not too distant future, to tell her that she will have to wait another 13 years would just break her heart!
    Air Wolf, MCT, RWS 500, Daystate Mk3 Bullpup, Huntsman Mk2 Target Rifle, PH6, Anchutz, 7.62 Kongsberg, 7.92 Yugo Mauser and .22 Mauser.

  7. #37
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    Here's my contribution. . .


    Concerned shooter of antique muzzle loaders, BASC member, maker of airgun power meters,
    paying lots of tax and collecting VAT. Used to be the sole sponsor of Olympic gold medal
    shot Mick Gault. East Sussex. Aged 52.

    If this is a rationalisation of existing law should it not loosen up in places and tighten
    in others? Couldn't find any loosening.

    Very concerned that if I pick the wrong 150 year old Enfield out of the gun safe for a
    days sport I could go to prison for a mandatory 5 years. I don't see how this helps stop
    people being machine gunned in some inner city gang war.

    You can't get a FAC until you have been a MLAGB member for 12 months and they have got to
    know you. This means everyone starts with an unwieldy musket which is classed as a
    shotgun. If shotguns go on FAC how does that work?

    It all seems so unnecessary, we are all very well behaved but getting a bit paranoid.
    There are all sorts of rumours about some civil service agenda to ban everything vaguely
    gun shaped, some days I almost believe it.

    best regards

  8. #38
    Lurch Guest
    Dear Christopher,

    Thank you for your e-mail and please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in replying. I shall have a careful read and think about these points over the next week or two and get back to you. I remember our earlier correspondence and was pleased that we were able to achieve a more positive outcome on the Antisocial Behaviour Bill. I remember using the material that you had supplied in discussing the line to be taken with Lib Dem colleagues and I think that with other colleagues we make a difference in that regard. As you may know I am now a front bench spokesman for the party on Home Affairs so I have a more direct input and at an earlier stage in the process. Your e-mail is therefore all the more appreciated! As you ask I shall bring your concerns to Mr Blunkett's attention.

    Regards

    Alistair Carmichael MP

    Before anyone asks, yes, I did vote for Carmichael.

  9. #39
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    This deserves a bump ..

    Have you done your bit and sent a response in yet?

    Time is pressing on!
    If it has a trigger, I'm gonna enjoy it!

  10. #40
    deathshed Guest
    sent myne twice you know what the post is like these days,and a copy to my local mp as yet no responce though!!!!!!

  11. #41
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    Hi,

    Like most people, I've written to the Home Office, and my MP. I got the usual bull***t reply from a MS Zoe Whatsername of the Home Office assuring me that there was no hidden agenda (yeah, right), and my MP sent a card acknowledging my letter, and nothing else. Having seen his website, I'm not surprised - anti-hunting.

    BUT, and here's the point of the message. I wish I'd seen the paper entitled "The failed experiment - Gun control and public safety in Canada, Australia, England, and Wales". It's in the journal "Public Policy Sources, No 71, November 2003, pages 3 - 25. It's on the web at:
    http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/fai...xperiment.pdf.

    It would have been really helpful in writing to the Home Office, and I may write to them again, with some of the data contained in the paper - not that that'll have any effect on a Labour politician, or Home Office civil servant.

    Neil

  12. #42
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    Sent mine today, to my MP + a copy to Simon Clarke & David Blunkett

    I will be encouraging & actively assisting any members of my club yet to do the same.

    Andy CM

  13. #43
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    Wink

    Sent mine and got a good reply from John Redwood, he helped me and my missis get our handgun compensation.

  14. #44
    Zanx Guest
    Got my reply for Mike Gapes today.



    Thank you for your recent letter expressing concerns about the proposals that would restrict the use of air powered rifles and pistols.

    I have taken the matter up with the Home Secretary. I will of course, be in touch again when I recieve a reply.

    Best wishes......


  15. #45
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    Angry Zanx.....

    I know you are fighting the good fight but I can't tell you how annoyed I get when receiving or hearing of a reply from an MP like the one you have posted from your MP.

    What is the point of consultation or for that matter MP's if they always behave like vegetables and defer all matters to the minister and decline to share their opinon, proffer some original thinking or make a contribution to the debate for the issue.

    If they fail to participate other than to pass things on then they are an utter waste of time!

    9/10 MP's blush, fart and dance around their handbags when faced with a question but they should be able to come up with something.

    Please give your MP another prod!

    Whist he is waiting for guidance from the home secretary please take the opportunity to re-inforce your view, challenge him on how the new proposals will make anyone safer than the changes to rules which have already outlawed SLR's. pistols, rimfire pistols, placed shotguns under more difficult restictions etc.

    Terrorists and criminals are the only ones not short of guns and ammuntion so whos head will roll?

    The police the customs - who exactly.

    Please Zanx (and anyone else) say no to a non reply - reply from an MP.

    I'm sure some with think I'm in cloud cookoo land but lets at least try and get some logic behind what they ultimately do.

    You migh also want to point out to him that the proposals go FAR beyond airguns and challenge if he has bothered reading the consultation papers or if he actually understands them?

    A disheartend ENGLISHman that will be following BuddyBoy if it keeps on like this!
    If it has a trigger, I'm gonna enjoy it!

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