FEINWERKBAU SPORT and the ANSCHUTZ 335

[Muskett]

I wouldn't get rid of my Anschutz as it is a great springer and a good fit for quite a few people. I also like the fact that it doesn't have a safety. However, my 13 year old son, preferred the Sport straight away and the reason I have two. Another reason he might have preferred it is that my Sport had had a basic tune.

The Sport is also so easy to cock, the Anschutz similar, which to young guns is a real boon. Both are light weight; a lbs or so does make a difference. Young shots need as little weight as possible. Webley and BSA were the right weight but just couldn't touch them for best accuracy; they only beat them on price. As a young gun then, 80's, it was the Sport 124 that I saved up for and bought. My Sport beat the pants off any Airsporter or Vulcan at range. If you didn't want, or could handle, a lump of a HW or Original 45 then there wasn't anything else. In their day they were better than the competition for weight, ergonomics, trigger and accuracy.

Funny just how good they are if they can still hold their own.

What modern springer is their equal? This is one area that I haven't a clue.

[slug-gun]

I was going to stay out of this thread, however I find I cannot resist putting my oar in, albeit at the risk of being controversial!
I bought 4 or 5 FWB Sports in the late 70's and early 80's, the best being the Mk.1's of course because they had much better wood, even though it was still beech, and they were without the awful muzzle brake that came later.
I agree with all the comments re performance & style etc, and all my Sports were taken apart, tuned and generally bug***ed around with, all of which made me very happy at the time.
I kept my best Sport and used it throughout the 80's, as it did indeed better the Anschutz overall, and certainly the HW35, both great guns but the Sport had the edge, probably because they look so elegant and are so eay to cock, all of which has been said.
THEN, the Theoben Sirocco came along in its 1990 format, with the safety catch set within the trigger guard, its .177 Anschutz barrel, fantastic quality walnut stock made for 'scope use, and fixed mounts. The breech block was far longer than on a Sport to give mazimum rigidity at the breech, and the detent made the ball bearing of the Sport look puny!
The main difference of course was the way it shot - short and quick, over in a flash, not the slightest hint of twang or zing, which even the best tuned Sports must exhibit.
Best of all was the accuracy: Using the early Crosman domes of the time (before Premiers) it would shoot 1 1/4" 5 shot groups at 63 yeards using a period 4 x 40 Tasco scope.
My good old Sport could never do that, so end of story for me. The Siroccos were of course massively more expensive but you usually only get what you pay for.
Then two years later along came the Theoben Imperator .177 FT, and that represented the same quantum leap forward from the Sirocco, as that rifle had been from the 'Sport, but that's another story.
So to answer the question, which is best, the FWB or the Anshutz, the winner is as 'Top Gear' might say, the Theoben Sirocco!

[BTDT]

So to answer the question, which is best, the FWB or the Anshutz, the winner is as 'Top Gear' might say, the Theoben Sirocco!

Stone him! He said 'Theoben Sirocco'

If we're going to open up the field, I'd say my RWS 45, breathed on by Airmasters, was a match for anything pre-HW77 and, while it equalled the '77 for accuracy, the '77 won on its minimal discharge movement (recoil).

[I. J.]

Stone him! He said 'Theoben Sirocco'

Totally agree. How dare someone come into this section and be controversial! They will be giving opinions next and we all know where that can lead.

But this does bring up the age old quandary - what calibre stones?
Do you use the larger Nori house brick with its sharp edges or go for speed and use smaller, but smoother pebbles.

I admit to never actually owing a Theoben gas ram. The nearest Ive come to it is a prototype Omega that shoots better than any of the Theobens I have had a go with in the past. Ive seen inside a few and wasn't really impressed for the money. Parts bin engineering - Webley this, BSA that and their after market service is renown.

Now THAT is controversial.
[Stands back and awaits a deluge of Noris.]



ATB
Ian

[I. J.]

Shame, cause good rifles though-but with firms like DM80,.....

'Firm' ?
DM80?
Not round the gut he's not.

ATB
Ian

[Muskett]

In my youth I part exchanged my Sport for a Theoben Sirocco! An upgrade in all fields?
Yes and No.

On the whole I shoot .177

Ergonomically the Sirocco was close to that of a Sport. Trigger a tad better but no Record. Weight less than a HW. No scope mounting problems and it had the moderator. Finish was gleaming. Accuracy was better or at least on par. The problem was bending barrels. A friend let fly through a half cock and bend number one. Gave the barrel a ski jump though it still shot straight. Second Serocco lasted a few more years and succumbed to the same upward drift.
Finally sold it, and bought an Webley Eclipse in .22 which I didn't keep long as it was like loading and shooting a musket!

Recently I bought a Theoben '88, no barrel bend this time Its a .22 so I also have a couple of Theoben break barrel HE's in .177; which are no better or worse than my recently acquired Sports.

Its the Sports that my son and I garden snipe with, plink about and generally have fun with. Wonder why

[slug-gun]

As with many products the Sirocco improved with age & development, reached a peak in terms of mechanical efficiency and quality, then plateaued as the company tried to reduce costs.
This peak occurred in around 1990/91 with the Sirocco IMO, just before the introduction of the 'HE' system, with its higher internal air pressure, (900 psi as opposed to 300psi), and allegedly easier cocking stroke.
The HE was primarily introduced to save money, the rest was all hype and good marketing, (from the horse's mouth.)
Early guns with Webley barrels, without the piston weight, etc were indeed poorer than, say, a Sport, but if you compare with the best of the breed, ie a pre HE model, then the Sirocco is hard to beat.
Also it is perhaps being a little harsh, Mr Muskett, to condemn it for having a bent barrel once that component has been allowed to fly up. That's a bit like blaming a car engine for seizing up because you forgot to put in the oil during the oil change - isn't it?

[Muskett]

Don't get me wrong I bought two Sirocco's because I loved them. I still have two break barrel Theobens. And yes, if you let any rifle fly through a cocking stroke then with all that pent up power something is going to get damaged. In the Sirocco's case it was the barrel, though they still kept the tight group and just needed a rezeroing, but you could see a noticeable shadow from the bend down the barrel. Also having a moderator fitted added additional weight to the calamity. The moderators were part of the overall appeal of the rifles and lastly there really aren't that many rifles finished and looking so good as Theobens.

[I. J.]

I have known a couple of barrels bend (downwards) on Original/RWS 45s due to over enthusiastic cocking! Not me I hasten to add - I can just about manage to push the safety catch off.
Now that, soft material or poor quality steel, I do consider a manufacturing fault.

ATB
Ian

[mallyally]

is a good gun i have a mint classic in 22
the latest ones are pants compared with the older ( pre HE ones )
in fact why call it HE i would prefer F.U.B.A.R. as a more apt description of the latest bunch / so i WILL be keeping my old one
but still there is a certain smile factor when shooting a SPORT so i will vote it my NO 1 for that reason
should have seen me when i had a go of I.J.s grinning for a week i was

[Hsing-ee]

I have known a couple of barrels bend (downwards) on Original/RWS 45s due to over enthusiastic cocking! Not me I hasten to add - I can just about manage to push the safety catch off.
Now that, soft material or poor quality steel, I do consider a manufacturing fault.

ATB
Ian

My Original 50T01 was made of very soft metal. It might only have been an air-rifle but there was no need to make it out of ferrous cheese. I sold it in disgust and got a HW35E. Much more betterer!

The two Theobens I have shot, a very early Scirroco and one of the latest offerings, were both very disappointing in terms of accuracy. Probably I don't have the technique, but I just don't like the idea of gas-rams and the triggers were really not nice, even the BSF one is far better. Gas-ram seems a solution to a problem that dosen't exist* and it makes the rifle more complex than necessary as well as making it less owner-fixable.


*In the 1970s and early 80s, shooters were obsessed with their (cocked) mainsprings weakening while they waited for quarry to arrive. It was some kind of urban myth that infected airgun shooters brains and made them paranoid about leaving their rifles cocked for any length of time. It was almost believed that if you didn't fire or decock your rifle after five minutes of waiting you'd grow hair on the palms of your hands and go blind. The Gas-ram was partly marketed as a solution to this 'problem', as were the various rather tacky pump-up rifles.

[RustyBuzz]

Now the Scirroco was interesting. Both Ian Law and Mark Cammocio tried them with no success. Mark was obsessed by using british at the time, but fed up with always finishing nowhere, he swapped from the Theoben to a Mastersport immediately won the Kent Open and never looked back. Ian persisted with the Scirroco and in the end lent it to my uncle Dave to see if the problem lay with himself or the rifle. We took it out with us on a number of occasions but neither of us could achieve group sizes comparable with the 124’s we were using.

However what surprised us was how good it proved as a hunting weapon, Dave just couldn’t miss with it in the field. Doesn’t make any sense I know but what does with air rifles? After a couple of weeks Dave gave it back to Ian and he moved in on somewhere. I have no doubt that they improved later but back in the day when “ break barrels rooled ok” the Scirroco couldn’t compete with the sport or 45.

I believe BT is absolutely correct when he says it’s all about what works for you. However, in my experience, if you are one of the people lucky enough to be able to get the best from a 124, there is no better break barrel rifle (except when it comes to worcestershire rabbits of course when they are useless).

I had forgotton about the interesting work BT and WBPS did on the 335, never shot one but the reports (mostly from BT it must be said) were very promising. I seem to remember that they also converted a HW80 by adding a complete 335 barrel assembly, what was that like BT?

[Muskett]

If I remember correctly my first Sirocco was slightly better than my first, these were 1984 to 86 rifles. My early '90's Sirocco Countryman always shot well but my Grand Prix I've still got an open verdict out on.

Just to jump in with a goodly: different telescopic sights have a huge bearing on how people get on with a rifle. There is a thread worth just on this subject. Telescopic sights are meant to always work and as be nearly as good as each other. But they don't are aren't.

[BTDT]

I had forgotton about the interesting work BT and WBPS did on the 335, never shot one but the reports (mostly from BT it must be said) were very promising. I seem to remember that they also converted a HW80 by adding a complete 335 barrel assembly, what was that like BT?

The WBPS 335 'Marauder' was very good, Rich. It was a 335 in a CSS Tyrolean stock, with a PTFE piston seal, other internal mods (I remember that the trigger pull was improved) and put together by a tool maker. It arrived late in the day after Airmasters and Venom had the tuning/custom business pretty well wrapped up, and never sold in great quantity.

The 'Maraudermax' was an HW80 with the Anschutz 335 breech block and barrel fitted. That wasn't an easy engineering job as you can imagine, and I think it was only available in FAC, so sold in very small numbers, because very few had tickets for FAC airguns in those days. The one I tested was giving 20-22fpe depending on the pellet, and had less discharge movement than a 12fpe HW80.

Both rifles were more expensive than Airmasters and Venom rifles, which also limited their sale.

[scirroco]

last night at the club i shot my fwb127 against my omega trying to decide which i liked best and which one to keep.. and i must say both were very accurate,i found the sport a little easier to shoot[i havnt shot spring guns seriously for 20 plus years] one thing i did seriously notice was how CRAP eley wasp pellets have gone!!!!!!!!
for me i think its the sport..WBPS I REMEMBER THEM WELL
rgds scirroco