Over powder card

[Scimmy]

.... anyone using 'em??

Just noticed recently a dramatic improvement in accuracy after introducing them to a my .44 new model army ( discounting of course the flincher's and snatchers )

Load comprises

25 Grains FFFG 777
.480 over powder card
10 grains semolina filler
lubed felt wad which measure .50 and are approx 1/4 " in depth
.454 swaged ball.

All this lot brings the ball towards the cylinder mouth.

Have omitted the grease, on the grounds that there are plenty of physical barriers for a spark to overcome for a flash firing of adjacent cylinders and also due to the clean burn characteristics of the 777.

4 cylinders shot so far at 25 yards with no ill effects

[harricook]

Hi Scimmy

25gns of 777 - thats a lot of powder .. have you tried less ??

At the moment - I shoot 20gn of 777 or 25gn BP & I am trying to work down on those loads.

ATB

Roy

.

[lilguy43uk]

Hi Scimmy

25gns of 777 - thats a lot of powder .. have you tried les ??

At the moment - I shoot 20gn of 777 or 25gn BP & I am trying to work down on those loads.

ATB

Roy

.

The Pietta manual recommends a maximum of around 19gn FFFg for the .44

[tacfoley]

Of course, you must load what you think is a safe load and one that is comfortable for you.

However, because of legislation and the risk of being sued, manufacturers regularly opine that low loads are best and safest, and the subject of safe loads in a BP revolver come up time and time again on www.muzzleloadingforum.com, of which a few of us on this side of the water are members.

I've been shooting a selection of .44 revolvers, including my own couple of Ruger Old Armys, with 22gr of Pyrodex P since the late 1960's.

As for real BP - these are the loads recommended by the general consensus of shooters over the way - as found on page 678 of the Dixie Gun Works reference handbook -

.44 modern-made Remington & Colt revolver - 28gr FFFg [22.5gr Pyrodex P]

.44 modern-made Colt Dragoon - 40gr FFFg [32gr Pyrodex P

.36 modern-made Remington & Colt revolver - 22gr FFFg - [17.5gr Pyrodex P]

My Colt Walker, a second-series low number model, takes 50gr of FFFg - I don't shoot Pyrodex in that.

After having all my .44 Mags taken from me here [a problem overcome by having more in the US], I miss the boom and recoil of a big shooter, and find that I can get some of that back with the loads I use behind conicals in the ROA.

The shots still stay inside a couple or three inches at 25yards, as anybody who has seen me shoot in our club can attest.

Of course, you have to figure out the loads that are most accurate for your gun, and boomers need not necessarily be the most accurate. In my case, they are.

tac

[lilguy43uk]

Of course, you must load what you think is a safe load and one that is comfortable for you.

However, because of legislation and the risk of being sued, manufacturers regularly opine that low loads are best and safest, and the subject of safe loads in a BP revolver come up time and time again on www.muzzleloadingforum.com, of which a few of us on this side of the water are members.

I've been shooting a selection of .44 revolvers, including my own couple of Ruger Old Armys, with 22gr of Pyrodex P since the late 1960's.

As for real BP - these are the loads recommended by the general consensus of shooters over the way - as found on page 678 of the Dixie Gun Works reference handbook -

.44 modern-made Remington & Colt revolver - 28gr FFFg [22.5gr Pyrodex P]

.44 modern-made Colt Dragoon - 40gr FFFg [32gr Pyrodex P

.36 modern-made Remington & Colt revolver - 22gr FFFg - [17.5gr Pyrodex P]

My Colt Walker, a second-series low number model, takes 50gr of FFFg - I don't shoot Pyrodex in that.

After having all my .44 Mags taken from me here [a problem overcome by having more in the US], I miss the boom and recoil of a big shooter, and find that I can get some of that back with the loads I use behind conicals in the ROA.

The shots still stay inside a couple or three inches at 25yards, as anybody who has seen me shoot in our club can attest.

Of course, you have to figure out the loads that are most accurate for your gun, and boomers need not necessarily be the most accurate. In my case, they are.

tac

Up until recently I used 23gn FFFg in my Pietta with no problems (the concussion tended to flatten the shooters either side of me though )

I must admit that reading the Pietta manual spooked me a bit but I can see the logic in your reasoning.

[steve medlock]

This is a useful little table which I refer to from time to time:

http://www.mlagb.com/shooting/pistol/2002loads.pdf

[Scimmy]

Cheers for the replies all. Started off using 15 grains 777 3FG and although it went bang the balls would at least hit the target board. Started incrementing up by 1 or 2 grains and came to the conclusion that this pistol likes to drive the ball out with some energy behind it.
Recoil is mild and settling down around the 25grain mark groups have gone from target board size, to dustbin lid, to large dinner plate and now a generous sized saucer! Much more practice required in hold and let off yet to be mastered but it seems to be getting there after the introduction of the over powder card.

This was a throw back to my ML shotgun days, think there was an article by VM Starr about the powder load being squared and leveled before the dropping of wad and shot, the card kept the charge uniform and hence its burn characteristics were improved (apparently).

Will carry on experimenting with and without lubes/cards/ fillers and hopefully get some pics of the next cards shot.

Cheers all

[tony1]

Whats an over powder card and what is it for???

[tacfoley]

.... anyone using 'em??

Just noticed recently a dramatic improvement in accuracy after introducing them to a my .44 new model army ( discounting of course the flincher's and snatchers )

Load comprises

25 Grains FFFG 777
.480 over powder card
10 grains semolina filler
lubed felt wad which measure .50 and are approx 1/4 " in depth
.454 swaged ball.

All this lot brings the ball towards the cylinder mouth.

Have omitted the grease, on the grounds that there are plenty of physical barriers for a spark to overcome for a flash firing of adjacent cylinders and also due to the clean burn characteristics of the 777.

4 cylinders shot so far at 25 yards with no ill effects

Well, Sir, I've been shooting my own cap & ball revolvers since 1968, and began a long time before that, here and in the US and Canada, and I've never heard of anybody ever putting a card wad over powder in handgun. Life is just too short, I guess, to have to put something else in the chamber apart from powder and ball, and most who shot these things in anger never used grease over the ball either, although we do now for the sake of enjoying a 'chain-fire'.

Still if it makes you happy, go for it.

BTW, your Triple 7 load is the equivalent of 30gr of FFFg.

tac

[Scimmy]

30 grains equivalent??, my word these euroarms are well built. Recoil appears to be tame with no dramatics half the smoke and very little soot. Even the loading lever hasn't jumped its catch yet, unlike the blasted dragoon used previously.
Maybe I will drop it down a tad, keep the card as another flash barrier and dump the grease and see how she goes.
Cheers all

[john paul]

I tried 24g of 777 FFFG in my Euroarms .44 Remmie - as advised by the seller/gunsmith with wads - shop bought.

Experimented with less 777 FFFG - 22g pretty good. Then bought 777 in FFG (by mistake) if you peruse some of the US Cowboy Action shooting sites this is what they like. The results I found improved grouping with the 777 FFG.

Tried making my own felt wads and adding beeswax, olive oil (small amount) with Trex - Crisco in the US. Yep tried fillers as well - cor messy for no real improvement.

At present as I was given a fair amount of Pyrodex P - by people giving up with BP pistols I'm using 24g of Pyrodex P just with plain Trex over the ball at 20 yds pretty good results. I'm sticking with this as 777 is soooooo expensive now. I tried 30g of the Pyrodex the other week and got a nice clover leaf group x3 rounds.

My Colt .36 1861 Sheriff as I get a really good ring of lead after loading the ball I only use the Trex on one cylinder just to clean the barrel. The chance of a chain fire nil as perfect seal every time. Load 18g of Pyrodex just right no delay, 15g FFG 777 not bad, but this pistol shoots best with Pyrodex.

Caps used for both pistols Remington 11, CCI number 11 Magnums pretty good standard CCI caps though not as good.

Well that's my findings after much experimenting. It comes down to what suits you and the pistol I reckon.

Safe Shootin..

[tim56]

As said above by JohnPaul. When you shoot a black powder gun you have to experiment and find your own combination of powder/filler/lube/primer that suits your own gun and works for you. One of the joys of shooting b/p and its substitutes.
Getting back to the card over the powder, i never use a card or a wad for pistols. Cant see the point in bumping the cost up with a wad and i allways lube over the balls. The one time i forgot my lube the Rogers became very inaccurate after 2 rounds of 6 as the powder residue clogged up the barrel.
Load for both the Ruger old army and the Rogers and spencer are 18grns of swiss pistol or 15 grns 777, a scoop of semolina and a conical bullet in the Ruger or 2 scoops of semolina and a .451 ball in the Rogers. Wonder lube over the bullet/ball in both of em and no11 caps. Works for me and a doddle to clean as the wonder lube keeps the residue soft.
The only time i use a card is with the 45/70 as i load in batchs and allways finish up knocking one over so now pour the powder in and gently shake the case to settle it down, insert a thin white card wad and seat it with a hand die. This not only stops the powder coming out if i knock a case over but also compresses the powder ready for the bullet and being white its easy to tell which cases are filled.
Have fun and enjoy your shooting while we can. Tim

[tacfoley]

Up until recently I used 23gn FFFg in my Pietta with no problems (the concussion tended to flatten the shooters either side of me though )

I must admit that reading the Pietta manual spooked me a bit but I can see the logic in your reasoning.

In that case they surely would not care to be aside of me when I cut loose with my Walker.

'snot MY reasoning - but a load that's borne out by 150 years of folks using them.

tac